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A question for the classic boys - Tomcat - 19-10-2010

The MMCC are asking current classic riders for their opinions of how to boost the events and entries. Good for them. However in the event that FORMER classic riders have not been contacted and would like their opinion to be heard can I suggest they contact mgp@manx.net to respond to the following questions:

Quote:Dear Classic Competitor

Following our email asking for feedback from the 2010 Manx Grand Prix many thanks to those of you who took the time to respond and the constructive comments they contained.

We are now writing to ask if you could spare a few minutes to answer the following questions:-

What are the disincentives to riding in the Manx Grand Prix?
List only 3 points ranking your choices 1,2, or 3

Ferry bookings
Price of ferry
Entry fees
Other costs of competing
Safety issues
Event organisation
The economic climate
The Mountain Course Licence
Replicas
Format of race programme
Other events at same time

Finally, it has been suggested to the Club that, in order to gain sponsorship, the Senior Classic Race be moved to the Friday of race week which would mean both classic and modern bikes are run every race day. Also if the Senior MGP and Senior Classic were run on this day, it would be the grand finale to the race meeting.

We would very much like to receive your comments by Wednesday 20 October.



RE: A question for the classic boys - shipleymanx - 20-10-2010

(19-10-2010, 08:17 PM)Tomcat Wrote: The MMCC are asking current classic riders for their opinions of how to boost the events and entries. Good for them. However in the event that FORMER classic riders have not been contacted and would like their opinion to be heard can I suggest they contact mgp@manx.net to respond to the following questions:

Quote:Dear Classic Competitor

Following our email asking for feedback from the 2010 Manx Grand Prix many thanks to those of you who took the time to respond and the constructive comments they contained.

We are now writing to ask if you could spare a few minutes to answer the following questions:-

What are the disincentives to riding in the Manx Grand Prix?
List only 3 points ranking your choices 1,2, or 3

Ferry bookings
Price of ferry
Entry fees
Other costs of competing
Safety issues
Event organisation
The economic climate
The Mountain Course Licence
Replicas
Format of race programme
Other events at same time

Finally, it has been suggested to the Club that, in order to gain sponsorship, the Senior Classic Race be moved to the Friday of race week which would mean both classic and modern bikes are run every race day. Also if the Senior MGP and Senior Classic were run on this day, it would be the grand finale to the race meeting.

We would very much like to receive your comments by Wednesday 20 October.

I have sent a couple of emails of to the club requesting early clarification as to what classes are running next year and also to committ to say that they will stay the same for a few years. That way people will commit to building a bike or going out and buying one. Its no good going year to year. I am mainly talking about the classics and post classics now. Also it would be nice to know which races are on which days, so feries can be booked. When money is tight any early news helps. The club have said there will be a statement soon.


RE: A question for the classic boys - an old man returns - 21-10-2010

I think that stating only three answers engineers the response and could negate other important pointsIcon_eek


RE: A question for the classic boys - maggie - 21-10-2010

Can somebody tell me, please, when the original email was sent out? and if all classic riders were supposed to be contacted?
Thanks.


RE: A question for the classic boys - an old man returns - 22-10-2010

I got mine 13 October 2010


RE: A question for the classic boys - scruffy - 22-10-2010

Looking at the list, all have an influence to some degree and i would have thought numbering them all in decending order of importance/influence would give a more accurate result???


RE: A question for the classic boys - superted - 25-10-2010

I would have thought it useful to mailshot those who didn't ride this year/last year to find out why!


RE: A question for the classic boys - Allan Brew - 27-10-2010

I,m not sure why I didn't receive the email ? Maybe its because the club already know of my reasons for not entering this year.

In my opinion, 2 of the main reasons why the Senior Classic entries have declined in recent years, are competing against 'super' classics and that the calculation for replica time has not changed.

The single cylinder racing classic became redundant when the Paton was allowed into the MGP. The difference in performance is such that you become totally demoralised, despite riding the wheels off, when you see their lap times. The knock on, when they win, is the impact on the number of replica's awarded.

I've been very lucky and have won a few replica's since my first Classic MGP in 1995. There are many, however, trying to get their first and when you have to lap at over at 100 to be within replica time you begin to ask the question, why should I bother.

It has always been the case that money can sometimes buy you the competitive edge, but this is now beyond a joke !

I hope the feedback given to the club will have a positive impact and lets hope we have full classic grids, next year.


RE: A question for the classic boys - cregnybaa - 28-10-2010

(27-10-2010, 08:27 PM)Allan Brew Wrote: I,m not sure why I didn't receive the email ? Maybe its because the club already know of my reasons for not entering this year.

In my opinion, 2 of the main reasons why the Senior Classic entries have declined in recent years, are competing against 'super' classics and that the calculation for replica time has not changed.

The single cylinder racing classic became redundant when the Paton was allowed into the MGP. The difference in performance is such that you become totally demoralised, despite riding the wheels off, when you see their lap times. The knock on, when they win, is the impact on the number of replica's awarded.

I've been very lucky and have won a few replica's since my first Classic MGP in 1995. There are many, however, trying to get their first and when you have to lap at over at 100 to be within replica time you begin to ask the question, why should I bother.

It has always been the case that money can sometimes buy you the competitive edge, but this is now beyond a joke !

I hope the feedback given to the club will have a positive impact and lets hope we have full classic grids, next year.

Olli linsdells 500 paton recorded 151 mph through the speed trap this year the same speed as Micheal Dunlops gs 1000 says it all really.


RE: A question for the classic boys - David Linsdell - 28-10-2010

Hi Everyone,

I would just like to point out that this year a "traditional" single won the race, and still only one other person won a replica. Yes the Paton has a top speed advantage, but mostly a good single will out accelerate one (due partially to the 25kg plus weight advantage that the Paton gives away to the Seeley's etc), and the fact seems to be forgotten that the multi's all have to stop for fuel. We were very happy with the speed trap figure this year, as dad has worked long and hard to get the bike to this level. Dad is very good at developing bikes to their potential (you may have also noticed that his Enfield was the third fastest bike through the speed trap this year?), and both him and Olie are very good at getting top speed out of a bike - though it should be noticed that when this speed was recorded Michael had just passed Ol, so he had a fair tow at the right moment!

I'm as sad as anyone at the dwindling entries in the classic classes and hope that riders like you (Alan) will consider returning, as you are the guys that we need! I had planned my debut (on a G50 actually) for next year, but don't think I could put mum through it after the incidents of this year. Maybe in the future some time. But I am trying to get a rider, or even two on my sponsers bikes, and doing everything that I can to try and encourage more bikes onto the grid next year! If we let classic bikes die on the Mountain Course, they ain't ever coming back!

Dad may not return next year due to the incident with Ol, but if he does his goal would be the same as this year; a replica and a shot at the podium on his Enfield! Everyone is there to be beaten and you only have to look at this years result to see what could have been. To finish first, first you have to finish.

Sorry for the rant (if it was one?). I'd also like to thank everyone on here who has sent good wishes to brother Ol over the last two months, they are all much appreciated!

P.S. Did anyone notice Mick Moreton in the results on his Paton? I believe he lapped slower than on his G50 and was going through the trap at around 128mph - does this tell you anything?

David Linsdell


RE: A question for the classic boys - Tomcat - 11-11-2010

Ted and Allan, I am 100% in agreement with you. The reason I posted this thread was so a few more riders might see it. As one who rode in 2010 I did get the email, but I wasn't sure if former riders were contacted. If they were, all well and good. If not, the club has lost possibly the most important information that could help them understand why entries are falling.

I'm also a little disappointed to see a rather vague reference to "replicas" - which could be taken as the problem Allan describes (or could be meaningless if somebody wasn't conscious of the issue). I'm afraid I can't agree with David on this issue, and neither do many riders (and ex riders!) I have spoken to. As we know this year the fast Patons and the MV all expired, which is the only reason a single won. They are so much faster they can negate the time lost refuelling. It's ridiculous and means reps are being priced out of the range of riders who have supported the races for years out of their own pocket, more so when current TT riders are brought in - paid to come, even, which creates an even bitterer pill when we face massive costs to ride already.

If the MMCC want to see a race comprised of more than 10 super-replicas with TT riders on them they need to listen to the clubmen, or we will be gone.


RE: A question for the classic boys - Gstarron - 11-11-2010

Hello all..!! First, David hope Oli is doing well... (much more important, IMNSHO).

It really seems (to me) that the biggest reason entries are down is the economy.. I have seen a serious decline here in the states at the races, and have talked to a bunch of guys..(and it has been a topic on a couple of road race forums here) they are picking and chosing where and when to race based on their wallet.. they are not traveling as much. Sponsorship is way down, which adds to the decline....

BUT, the good news, is that I am confident the economy will turn..! And I have seen some signs of that happening... We just need to wait it out....

That said, I am most pleased with the changes made to add the Post Classics...! Again I can easily see those entries picking up steam...!!

OK, are there any rich widows that wish to adopt me..?? (racing is not cheap... heh).

Cheers..!!

Ron Big Grin


RE: A question for the classic boys - an old man returns - 12-11-2010

Sorry Ron there is a queue awaiting the adoption papers and I am in front of you lol


RE: A question for the classic boys - David Linsdell - 12-11-2010

(11-11-2010, 12:57 PM)Tomcat Wrote: Ted and Allan, I am 100% in agreement with you. The reason I posted this thread was so a few more riders might see it. As one who rode in 2010 I did get the email, but I wasn't sure if former riders were contacted. If they were, all well and good. If not, the club has lost possibly the most important information that could help them understand why entries are falling.

I'm also a little disappointed to see a rather vague reference to "replicas" - which could be taken as the problem Allan describes (or could be meaningless if somebody wasn't conscious of the issue). I'm afraid I can't agree with David on this issue, and neither do many riders (and ex riders!) I have spoken to. As we know this year the fast Patons and the MV all expired, which is the only reason a single won. They are so much faster they can negate the time lost refuelling. It's ridiculous and means reps are being priced out of the range of riders who have supported the races for years out of their own pocket, more so when current TT riders are brought in - paid to come, even, which creates an even bitterer pill when we face massive costs to ride already.

If the MMCC want to see a race comprised of more than 10 super-replicas with TT riders on them they need to listen to the clubmen, or we will be gone.

I accept that everyone has their own opinion, but forgive me if i'm wrong - when exactly was a TT rider, or indeed any rider, paid to ride in the Manx? There were rumours that Ryan was paid to ride, but I can categorically state that this is just that; a rumour.

The riders and sponsers that are being reffered to have done nothing but support the Manx at all times, and I think that it is wrong that people who have done nothing but play by the rules AND be extremely talented on a motorcycle are victimised and continue to have their achievments belittled!

People said the same of the K4's, but where would the grids be if they were excluded now (remembering that a 'traditional' single again holds the lap and race record)? I also believe, and will continue to do so, that if the riders at the top of the pile were on the works singles, that the result would not be any different, and the number of replicas awarded would remain the same.

So far the evidence would suggest that there is very little difference between rider's speeds on their singles and on their multi's (Alan MV and Manx, and the two conviniently forgotten Paton riders). People forget the differences in acceleration, braking, cornering, fuel consumption etc etc. To finish first, first you have to finish; remember that a Single just has, and will again in the future, win at the Classic Manx.

Alan, I hope that you and the others who have ceased to race the Manx for various reasons will consider a return, as you are greatly missed by all! You would, as ever, be firmly in the hunt for a podium finish.

David Linsdell


RE: A question for the classic boys - markgant496 - 12-11-2010

Thought that as a former MGP Classic competitor during the period 1989 to 2008 I might as well add my tuppeny worth. For myself the thrill of competing on the TT course was sufficient reward for riding at the Manx. I was never in any danger of winning a replica nor would I ever have expected to be in with a shout of winning one, so all the talk of Patons and MV's etc did not and would not affect my decision. What sealed the deal for me was the TT course mountain licence, I just could not and am still unable to afford to compete in another 5 or 6 events as well as the Manx, If you add it up the extra costs involved with the licence requirements mean extra expenditure in excess of £1500, an amount I can ill afford as being totally reliant on my own earnings. My dream as a slightly younger man than I am now, was to compete on the TT course, and I'll never forget the feeling of the first time I set off down Bray Hill with the roads closed, nor will I forget the countless friends I have made during the course of my career.
I was surprised not to be contacted by the club as they most certainly have my contact details, but perhaps they know that the one thing they are unable to change is the course licence requirements.
Anyway, best of luck to everybody competing or intending to compete at the 2011 event.

Mark Gant


RE: A question for the classic boys - superted - 12-11-2010

There are several points there, and it's always going to be a matter of perspective, but the Patons came and everyone else left; I don't believe in coincidences.

Just because Mick Moreton didn't have a very good year doesn't mean that the Paton doesn't confer an advantage. Andy Reynolds is quite candid about admitting that it was the extra power of the Paton that enabled him to get his 100mph lap, and the single he had been riding up until then was one of the best

This has happened before with the 250s. When the Suzukis started getting quicker everyone wanted one, sold their Ducatis and Aermacchis, and we had the top 250s lapping quicker than 500s. Net result, very poor entries once people realised they still had to ride the things, and when everyone had one their relative positions stayed the same!

The K4s were banned for some years for fear of the same thing happening, and now they're back it is happening but it's hard to tell cause from effect. The 350 class is now largely K4s, but is that because people have put away their singles in favour of the cheaper to maintain and possibly quicker K4? If the K4s were still banned would the singles still be there?

Last year, when the Junior and Senior had to be run as one race the two riders I was spannering for (TT riders, not paid!) both decided to use their K4s rather than their Senior bikes because they knew that they had little chance of a replica in the Senior against the Paton/Ryan/Olie combination, but the Junior was a far more level playing field


RE: A question for the classic boys - Gstarron - 13-11-2010

I gotta say... them Aermacchi's in both the Sr and Jr classes went FAST this year... darn fast..!!! I was very impressed... And then that cool Enfield.. well... what can I say..? Yup, push rod singles that did over the TON..!! Made me smile for sure..! Just sad that the events meant no chance for the Enfield to be on the podium as well... sigh..

I gotta agree with David 100%... the better riders place near the front... does not matter much what they are on..... But they DO give the rest, times to shoot for..!!

I have always been a proponent of "the more the merrier".. and bikes like the MV and the Paton fall in that category... That said, in the States, only the 2 valve Paton is in the equivalent of the Sr Classic class, while the 4 valve would be in the equalalent of the Post Classic type class.. On a circuit track, the 4 valve Paton ran away and hid from the fastest Manx out here...

Now keep in mine, I LOVE the singles... years ago I had a Water Buffalo.. talk about a hand full to ride..! I do not miss that bike..!

And yes I also agree the fields got smaller when the TT Course license got harder to get... and then smaller again when the economy got bad.

I just hope that there is a (slight) reduction in the requirements that make it a tad easier.... and of course the economy (world wide) improves as well... that is what it will take to get more entires... IMNSHO....

Oh yes, and the Jurby event was (is) top notch..! That too has to bring more spectators out... And the more spectators, hopefully brings out more racers...

Oh yes, it is also easier to give up, than move forward.... I am looking forward to next year... can't wait....

Cheers..!!

Ron


RE: A question for the classic boys - ammo - 13-11-2010

(11-11-2010, 05:24 PM)Gstarron Wrote: Hello all..!! First, David hope Oli is doing well... (much more important, IMNSHO).

It really seems (to me) that the biggest reason entries are down is the economy.. I have seen a serious decline here in the states at the races, and have talked to a bunch of guys..(and it has been a topic on a couple of road race forums here) they are picking and chosing where and when to race based on their wallet.. they are not traveling as much. Sponsorship is way down, which adds to the decline....

BUT, the good news, is that I am confident the economy will turn..! And I have seen some signs of that happening... We just need to wait it out....

That said, I am most pleased with the changes made to add the Post Classics...! Again I can easily see those entries picking up steam...!!

OK, are there any rich widows that wish to adopt me..?? (racing is not cheap... heh).

Cheers..!!

Ron Big Grin

Entries suddenly dropped, in all classes, by approx 50% in 2006, it therefore follows that "something " must have happened at the end of 2005 to make this happen. The MMCC have been told many times what the problems are but have always adopted a "We dont really want to know that" attitude.

ammo (Ex rider who hasnt received an e-mail and definite "Holiday racer" )


RE: A question for the classic boys - Gstarron - 15-11-2010

Unless I am mistaken it is the ACU, not the MMCC that is in charge of the rules... From everything I have seen, the MMCC is top notch.. and try hard to include as many racers as possible...

I guess I am agreeing with you, as we can also say that the rules change also ran the costs up.. they go hand in hand. Plus there are at least a few of the more "mature" racers that did not want to take the more stringent physical exam (they have their reasons).. And in some countries it is difficult to find "acceptable" race meetings...

There are lots of obstacles, but please remember that these rules were implemented to try and reduce accidents. Whether they do or not is not for me to determine. However, the more track time does suggest that a racer would be sharper...

The good news, is that I just learned that two former MGP racers (that did not race last year) are trying to get their TT Course license so they can race next year.. that is two more..!! And I am in contact with two racers here in the states that are trying to get the money needed to come and race as Newcomers...

I know that is not a lot, but two more here, and two more there...

Lastly, I am glad to hear of people already making preparation for next year's Manx..!

Cheers..!!

Ron

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Entries suddenly dropped, in all classes, by approx 50% in 2006, it therefore follows that "something " must have happened at the end of 2005 to make this happen. The MMCC have been told many times what the problems are but have always adopted a "We dont really want to know that" attitude.

ammo (Ex rider who hasnt received an e-mail and definite "Holiday racer" )


RE: A question for the classic boys - Gstarron - 17-11-2010

Well, I just got the latest issue of the Gold Star magazine... and I see one David Linsdell won the 350 class..!! That warms my heart.... nice..!! Congrats..!! I would gladly buy you a pint (or two) or..? at next year's MGP..!!

I hope Oli is healing well....

(All my bikes are singles, and they all are Gold Stars too..!!)

Cheers..!

Ron Big Grin

(28-10-2010, 01:49 AM)David Linsdell Wrote: Hi Everyone,

I would just like to point out that this year a "traditional" single won the race David Linsdell