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+--- Thread: How many corners on the course. (/showthread.php?tid=19101)
How many corners on the course. - Kursaal Flyer - 24-03-2015
Ive heard some different numbers quoted when it comes down to how many corners on the TT course. This can also vary depending on how you count them . Some double and triple apex corners are just one corner really arnt they ? are some of the fast slight curves all around the course counted as corners ?
Yout thoughts and answers ?
RE: How many corners on the course. - SILJA - 24-03-2015
My guess is between 225 and 250. It depends of what your definition of a corner is. For example, is the kink towards the end of Sulby straight, before Sulby Bridge a corner? I've heard some riders saying that it's definitely a corner when you pass it in 190 m.p.h. In a speed of around 50 m.p.h. I wouldn't call it a corner.
RE: How many corners on the course. - BenjiesDad - 24-03-2015
Kursaal Flyer,
Since somebody did there homework, many years ago,
The course has changed so much,
But as your a Newcomer, i hope you don't mind the following tips ?
Quarter Bridge, Slow Corner but has been the downfall of a few people over the years,
Braddan, its changed quite a bit over the last few years, not as damp coming out of it, if there is that Magic Manx floating around,,
Union Mills, Same here i think with the tree cover,
But your Tires are still going to be cold,,
BallaScary,, your carrying a lot of speed into there, but if its a cold night, the tyres wont be warm enough, ( unless you are lucky enough to have the full tyre crew about )
Greeba Castle, another fast corner/flick left right, but if the trees are carrying any moisture, it could be slippy between the left right flick,
Appledene, another non corner as such, but if its wet for an evening practise, treat with caution,
Greeba Bridge, A proper corner ! lol
Ballacraine, A corner that either you like or hate ! more so in the Manx, when the road looks like it hasnt been sweeped, but its just the oil on the road from every day traffic,,
Ballaspur, or Milkys corner,, the light in the evening filters through the trees on your left, so you can get a Strobe effect,
Sorry this was about Corners wasnt it,, lol
But if you arnt all bored ???
The rest of the lap with conditions etc, will follow on !
Its up to you all, if you want to see the rest ?
Benjies Dad
Woof Woof
RE: How many corners on the course. - Steady the Edward - 24-03-2015
Go for it Dad , I am past being able to put your words to good use but I can dream and revel in the picture you paint with words Go boy Go
RE: How many corners on the course. - Ken37.73 - 24-03-2015
206. My guess .................
RE: How many corners on the course. - spannerman - 25-03-2015
(24-03-2015, 03:56 PM)SILJA Wrote: My guess is between 225 and 250. It depends of what your definition of a corner is. For example, is the kink towards the end of Sulby straight, before Sulby Bridge a corner? I've heard some riders saying that it's definitely a corner when you pass it in 190 m.p.h. In a speed of around 50 m.p.h. I wouldn't call it a corner.
Hi Jan, my definition of that kink near the end of Sulby is a bend more than that of a corner, having said that is there a definition between a bend and a corner in most people's wiew, believe it or not according to the IOM.gov there are only 21 official highway named corners on the course.
RE: How many corners on the course. - SILJA - 25-03-2015
(25-03-2015, 01:54 AM)spannerman Wrote:(24-03-2015, 03:56 PM)SILJA Wrote: My guess is between 225 and 250. It depends of what your definition of a corner is. For example, is the kink towards the end of Sulby straight, before Sulby Bridge a corner? I've heard some riders saying that it's definitely a corner when you pass it in 190 m.p.h. In a speed of around 50 m.p.h. I wouldn't call it a corner.
Hi Jan, my definition of that kink near the end of Sulby is a bend more than that of a corner, having said that is there a definition between a bend and a corner in most people's wiew, believe it or not according to the IOM.gov there are only 21 official highway named corners on the course.
Hi there Spanners,
As a non native Englishman I'm not aware of the difference between a corner and a bend. A kink is not as bent as a corner or a bend in my world. Is a corner more bent than a bend? Can anyone explain the difference between a bend and a corner, please? I've seen figures between 225 and 250 corners or bends through the years. What's the thruth? I doubt we will never know as the definitions of corners, bends and kinks are very vague.
RE: How many corners on the course. - BenjiesDad - 25-03-2015
Silja,
Then you throw into the Equation,
Is a Chicane a bump in the road, but inverted through 180 Degree,s ?,,, Lol
RE: How many corners on the course. - HammerHead - 25-03-2015
Hi Silja,
I'm not sure there is any definitive definition, it's probably down to personal perception. To me a corner is sharper (a more acute angle) than a bend. In my mind a kink is much the same as a bend in sharpness although I think of a bend as more smooth and a kink as a meeting point of two straight sections (but not very bent). I suppose a rough rule of thumb would be that you have to slow down for a corner but not for a bend or a kink (or not nearly as much anyway).
It's not at all scientific, just in your own mind. This, I think, is why different sources have a different number of corners on the Mountain Course.
As examples there is the obviously named Douglas Road Corner and Quarry Bends. As for an example of a kink, then perhaps the bottom of Bray Hill or the end of Sulby Straight would fit that.
RE: How many corners on the course. - SILJA - 25-03-2015
(25-03-2015, 11:43 AM)HammerHead Wrote: Hi Silja,
I'm not sure there is any definitive definition, it's probably down to personal perception. To me a corner is sharper (a more acute angle) than a bend. In my mind a kink is much the same as a bend in sharpness although I think of a bend as more smooth and a kink as a meeting point of two straight sections (but not very bent). I suppose a rough rule of thumb would be that you have to slow down for a corner but not for a bend or a kink (or not nearly as much anyway).
It's not at all scientific, just in your own mind. This, I think, is why different sources have a different number of corners on the Mountain Course.
As examples there is the obviously named Douglas Road Corner and Quarry Bends. As for an example of a kink, then perhaps the bottom of Bray Hill or the end of Sulby Straight would fit that.
Hi HammerHead,
Your explanation seems very reasonable to me. Thank you! Once more I believe that we will never know the exact number as we all use different definitions when the road is bending.
RE: How many corners on the course. - Kursaal Flyer - 25-03-2015
I did not realise this question would raise so many other questions. The concept of what is a corner must also all change dependant on what bike you are riding . You only have to listen to some of the onboard laps with commentry to here this is flat out on the 600 but a role off on a super bike.
In real terms I think Ballascary is a curve in the road but approached at speed it definatelly becomes a corner a big gonades one as well !
RE: How many corners on the course. - Nev14 - 25-03-2015
Silja, I agree about the slight kink at the end of Sulby Straight is hardly noticeable at the legal speed limit there of 30mph. But at racing speeds approaching 190mph Having marshalled at Mill Race marshalling point I can tell you that as they lean over and head towards you it quite some kink or curve or corner whatever you call it.
RE: How many corners on the course. - BenjiesDad - 25-03-2015
Like this Thread,
As it gets the mind going tick tick !
The bend/corner for me that sticks out,
Is between the Creg and the old Brandish,,
Very innocent in a car or road bike, and to a certain degree on a Classic bike,
But on a Sidecar flat out with somebody up your chuff on the last lap of a race,
It is bloody frightening !
Will they try and pass or not ? and Yes somebody did once,,
My words at the time cant be repeated,,, Felt sorry for the guy in the Chair !!
Benjies Dad
Woof Woof !
RE: How many corners on the course. - Promor - 26-03-2015
I suggest that the lean angle of the bike, and/or radius of the direction change (note how I didn't say kink or bend) could be a scientific way of establishing the number, but then you have the rider variable to consider too. Lets just say there are lots and its fun to ride.
RE: How many corners on the course. - SILJA - 26-03-2015
(26-03-2015, 01:52 PM)Promor Wrote: I suggest that the lean angle of the bike, and/or radius of the direction change (note how I didn't say kink or bend) could be a scientific way of establishing the number, but then you have the rider variable to consider too. Lets just say there are lots and its fun to ride.
He, he. Good one!
RE: How many corners on the course. - dymock - 26-03-2015
(24-03-2015, 01:56 PM)Kursaal Flyer Wrote: Ive heard some different numbers quoted when it comes down to how many corners on the TT course. This can also vary depending on how you count them . Some double and triple apex corners are just one corner really arnt they ? are some of the fast slight curves all around the course counted as corners ?
Yout thoughts and answers ?
Do you mean when the roads are Open or Closed. Interesting to know the difference in numbers
RE: How many corners on the course. - Kursaal Flyer - 27-03-2015
Dymock . The question was aimed at the course in closed road mode !
Take the entry into Kirk Michael , in closed road state after the initial tight right theres a three apex right curve/corner . At 30mph open roads hardly noticable as a corner and the position of any bike is completely different.
RE: How many corners on the course. - ooobaby - 30-03-2015
It would seem to me that the fairly arbitrary definitions of a turn/curve/bend/kink are such that it would be impossible to ever actually establish a "number per lap". And, I'm assuming the original question pertained to race speeds on a closed course. To me, any deviation from my current line which would cause me to have to either change the lean angle of the bike (especially from upright), or back off the throttle, or both, (not including changes in the road surface/elevation) would qualify as a change in direction and therefore a "turn/curve" to me. Just my two cents.
RE: How many corners on the course. - Geekay - 08-04-2015
217.....