A question for the classic boys
Gstarron Offline

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RE: A question for the classic boys
Speaking of singles... where / what happened to all the Molnar Manx's, and Wamsley's bikes..?? Are they now just museum pieces.?

21-11-2010, 05:32 PM
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Steve Linsdell Offline

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RE: A question for the classic boys
(21-11-2010, 05:32 PM)Gstarron Wrote: Speaking of singles... where / what happened to all the Molnar Manx's, and Wamsley's bikes..?? Are they now just museum pieces.?


They don't want to play anymore! Gone to the Lansdowne to do what they say we have done to the Manx.
It’s all down to your point of view I suppose, the way you see things.

I have had some thoughts to pen a letter for some time. I have done it now with decisions I’ve just taken making it a good time to put down some facts and information for the Classic boys that may take some time to read!

Yesterday I loaded up the Paton's and they are now on the way back to Italy. Five great years thanks to owner Giovanni Cabassi where we have got them from not a hope of finishing to the formidable machine that fulfils its promise of years ago.
Some blame those bikes of reducing the Manx entry but its problems are whatever way you personally want to see them. Two things will stop the Classic races that we can actually influence. Not enough riders and not enough 'Heads on beds'- the spectators.
If a rider considers the 'exotica unbeatable then they are an easy target to blame. If you are a visitor to the best races in the world then you want to see the whole spectrum of riders and machines. Believe you me the many, many visitors that have talked to me come to see just that. For most people there are a number of chances to see the British bikes raced during the season but very few chances of the Paton's and MV's. Even less chance of hearing them un-silenced on full bore. Maybe we have a problem seen by the riders that has resulted in the attendance to the Manx rising! (4% this year)
I have been dismayed with the comments that have been made regarding those fantastic bikes. Whenever I have heard a tale of non conformity with the rules I found the evidence to prove to myself that I was not riding something that would make me nervous at post race scrutineering. The information was all there in period British publications and the quoted examples are only from the first months of 1968. I always cover any likely protest with proof of eligibility.

On this very forum it was stated that they 'were conceived and built in the 80's'. If I can get it to work I will add a link to a scan of a Motor Cycle News headline of January 31st 1968. Five years before the cut off date. (End of 1972) In case I cannot do it being a computer numpty it headlines about Billy Nelson signing to ride the Hanna Paton's. “He is shortly due to test in Italy” and “there may also be some testing to do on the four valve head design that Guiseppe Pattoni has been working on”

Frame wrong? MCN April 10th 1968 page 6 static shot of ‘The latest twin tried briefly in practise before it blew up!’ showing the frame used now. The 1968 frame was quite different from the 1967 and earlier and indeed different from the 1969 and later types. The code was up to BL6 by 1971. I also have a picture of a bare frame from a 1968 Italian magazine showing the current frame to be a perfect copy.

Swing arm to long? MCN March 27th 1968 page 6 quote “Nelson’s machine had the new frame which has a longer swinging arm and he reported much improved handling”

Never offered for sale? MCN February 7th 1968 page 6 “£1400 Paton’s.” Quote “Work was due to start shortly on the production of a batch of 10 racers which will sell for around £1400 each” If you wanted one Peppe would make you one.

Dellorto’s out of period? Letter from Dellorto stating when it was designed, prototyped and put into commercial production. ---- 1972.

Blanked off pumper carbs? The carb was always designed to have accelerator pump option. It’s not blanked off as it was never fitted. Checked as always with the chief scrutineer and I have the copy e-mail giving approval to use.

They were never any good in their day? Nor were K4 Hondas I am told (and Royal Enfield Bullets)!!! As normal good bikes attract good riders and if riders like Lea, Ryan and Olie had not ridden them I feel they would be welcomed by all in the classic world.
Anyway we had come to the end of a five year plan and were hopeful of Olie getting the win for Giovanni that I never gave him but events spoiled that. He generously gave me the option of using them again in 2011 but after lots of thought I have decided that if not running them at the Manx will help grow the entries then that is what we will do. Giovanni’s Paton’s will not run in the UK next season including the Manx GP. (Obviously I have no control over the other three in England.)
Now this is the bit that might hurt!
Carry on entering, come back if you have gone, there is a podium there for the taking!
Up your pace, think outside the norm for your bike and RACE. If you do not want to that’s fine but please do not expect to get something for nothing. Replica’s were usually hard won and should continue to be. The circuit is 3 miles a hour faster now, are you? If like me you are slowing and need an excuse to stop then think about a younger rider and keep the bike out there. There are a number of younger riders that would jump at the chance of riding a real racing bike and they can go really fast! Olie was 7 seconds faster than me at Cadwell on the same bike!!! I can’t understand it but he was. I think he must of found a short cut!
In the words of Merv Hackett “Rider adds speed!”
The Linsdells will continue to chase anything in front on the Enfield’s, (David on Bob Lights Gold Stars) next season. Big scalps are so much better than pots!
Olie’s recovery will dictate where we race but we will be back ‘pushing the rods!’
There is another 8-valve twin out there with the most modern combustion chamber in classic racing and its legal, British and best of all push rod! Right up my street.

To the Manx Motorcycle club please give details of any changes planned by you and the Tourism department soon, as plans and decisions have to be made.

To everybody that thought of, contacted us and prayed for Olie Thank you. It made the worst weeks of our lives just about bearable.

[Image: MCN%20JANUARY%2031ST%201968%20PATONS.JPG]

[Image: email%20reference%20dellorto.jpg]
24-11-2010, 07:16 PM
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Paul Phillips Offline

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RE: A question for the classic boys
- Revised calendar, regulations and races designed to appeal to fans, sponsors and competitors

The Manx Motor Cycle Club and Department of Economic Development have been working together on the structure and definition of the Manx Grand Prix Races ahead of the 2011 event.

The significant changes include new classes and a revised calendar that will see the meeting ending with a high profile Classic Superbike Race. The team have also reviewed the replica criteria in the Classic Races to ensure that results are not skewed by the participation of current TT riders.

Developments to the race definition include the introduction of a Twin Cylinder (Super Twin) MGP Race incorporating 650cc four stroke and 250cc two stroke machines and the reworking of the Lightweight MGP Race, limiting the race to 400cc four stroke, 125cc two stroke and the exciting new 450cc single cylinder machines.

The regulations for the renamed 500cc Classic GP race have been modified to allow 350cc machines to enter, while the upper capacity limit of the Formula Classic Race has been increased to 850cc and the cut off date extended to 1974, which are both designed to increase the number of entries. Riders entering multiple Classic races will be given an entry fee discount which is also hoped will further boost the number of participants.

As has become tradition over the last 32 years, the race programme will commence with a separate race for Newcomers to the TT Mountain Circuit. Aiming to keep spectator appeal to a maximum through the variety of racing machinery competing, each race day will feature both modern and classic bikes. Monday 29thAugust sees a combined 350cc and 250cc Classic Grand Prix followed by the Junior Manx Grand Prix Race.

Wednesday 31st August will feature thecombined new Super Twin Manx Grand Prix Race and Lightweight MGP, which will follow the combined Formula Classic and 500cc Classic GP Races. The meeting culminates on Friday 2nd September with the Senior Manx Grand Prix for 750cc multi cylinder and1000cc twin cylinder machines, followed by the newly titled Classic Superbike Race and concurrently run Junior Post Classic Race.

The organisers have changed rider eligibility for the modern races and will now consider entriesfromprevious race winners wishing to compete, although riders who have competed in the TT for two years preceding the race, or who have won a TT replica within the previous four years, will not be eligible. The same terms will be applied to the awarding of Classic race replica’s, with replica times now based on the first finisher not to have competed in the two previous TT’s or been awarded a replica in the previous four years TT Races.

The race structure has been reviewed to improve safety for riders by reducing the number of starters to 90 in any one race, and for riders to start on their own, at ten second intervals, which is in line with the policy for the TT Races.

Bill Bennett, Chairman, Manx Motor Cycle Club, commented:

“We are working closely with the Isle of Man Government and the ACU to create a better festival for our classic and modern bike competitors that will also appeal to spectators and potential sponsors.”

Geoff Corkish, MBE, MHK, Political Member, Isle of Man Tourism, commented:

“I want to thank the Manx Motor Cycle Club for their concerted effort to improve the Manx Grand Prix Races, as an integral part of the Manx Grand Prix festival. We think that the changes will appeal to competitors and visitors alike as we look to build on our ambition to become the world’s best classic racing experience.”
26-11-2010, 07:07 PM
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Tomcat Offline

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RE: A question for the classic boys
Wot, no replies!

What can I say but WELL DONE to the club, who I believe have really taken on board 99% of what was being asked for, and I think everyone who bothered to make their views known deserves a measure of congratulation as well, for helping shape an event better able to cope with the challenges of the future.

What Steve and others have said is valid, the eligibility criteria apply to all and if a bike is eligible it's eligible. Never mind 99% of the field couldn't afford it in several years of Sundays at double time! The welcome improvement in this respect is recalculation of replica time. The fast boys will be at liberty to set new lap records but by using the first non TT rider as the benchmark the clubmen will be encouraged as rewards willl no longer be an impossible dream.

From a personal perspective I welcome the extension of the Formula Classic capacity to 850cc as it will enable the 850 Nortons to better compete with the Tridents - as long as machines are only allowed to run to their production capacity limits!

Also personally, as I used a Minitwin last year and was disappointed by its lack of speed compared to the supertuned supertwins, it would have been nice to see the Minitwins allowed to run with the Lightweights. Minitwins are a great low-cost class and most English riders run to this not the Irish/Scottish supertwin regs. Maybe later?

All in all a good package of changes, blighted only by the ongoing costs of competing, from the ruinous charges of the Steam Racket to the pointless Course Licence. But I guess such things are not within the MMCC's ability to change so let me just thank them one more time and wish all of you who will be going "between the hedges" in 2011 a very successful new year Smile
05-01-2011, 01:18 PM
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