Fire proof pit overalls specification
Splashdown Offline
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#21
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
You have some sympathy. We bought a new set of fire proof overalls specifically for re-fuelling for last year's Classic TT/ Manx, (£235?), and my mechanic was at this year's TT with them and they were no good, so I need a full set too!
Absolutely barmy, especially when there's bare fleshed ladies swanning around the warm up paddock when all the bikes are assembled together with hot engines and full of fuel.
At least  when the riders are re-fuelling, the whole entry isn't there.
23-06-2015, 03:32 PM
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smokey125 Offline
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#22
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
Splashdown I had heard that several people had issues with the mechanics overalls/suits not meeting the requirements at the TT. Is there any chance you could let us know what specs the suit was made to and what didn’t conform to the requirements?

I'll finish it one day!
23-06-2015, 04:00 PM
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Splashdown Offline
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#23
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
Smokey, I'll contact my chum who has my overalls.
23-06-2015, 04:27 PM
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Kursaal Flyer Offline
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#24
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
Smokey 125 ( cant beat a good two stroke)

the spec required is from the regs as below .

Team Managers and Attendants must wear the following Personal Protective Equipment (PPE):

The attendant responsible for refuelling must wear a suit that meets the higher standard of SFI 3.2A/5 / FIA 8856-2000. The overalls must have collars, ankle and wrist cuffs and be zip up not pop stud. The attendant responsible for refuelling must wear a double layered fireproof balaclava and fireproof gloves while refuelling.

Other members of the Pit Crew must wear a suit that meets the standard of EN 531/533 / NFPA 2112. They must also wear a fireproof balaclava.

Balaclava. The Balaclava must be a double layer FIA approved Balaclava

Gloves. Must be FIA approved to standard SFI 3.2A/5 / FIA 8856-2000

Suitable footwear must be worn at all times in the pit lane. Footwear worn by Team Managers and Attendants must not have any studs, steel tips etc. All Team Managers and Attendants must remain in the pit allotted to them, except when their competitor is at the pit, when Attendants may assist or carry out replacements and repairs, only using the spares previously deposited in the pit. Wheels fitted with tyres may be brought into the pit during a race. The PPE outlined above must be worn fully by the Team Manager/Pit Attendants whilst their rider is stationary in the allotted pit area.


For the refueler that means a race suit as per in a race car spec . the others suits are easier , but all still need FIA approved balaclavas and the refueler needs gloves.
All the specs are higher than last year so everybody check your suits and make sure yours conform !!!!
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(This post was last modified: 23-06-2015, 06:32 PM by Kursaal Flyer.)
23-06-2015, 06:32 PM
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smokey125 Offline
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#25
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
Kursaal I'm aware of what the regs are asking for. It's not that dissimilar to last years. Gloves have to be higher spec and everyone has to wear a balaclava. The balaclava's aren't too much of a problem there readily available.
What's really concerning me is the overalls. The regs are not written very clearly and it sounds like quite a few people got caught out by this at the TT due to the lack of clarity. If Splashdown can shed some light on this then that would be really useful.

I'll finish it one day!
23-06-2015, 11:20 PM
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Kursaal Flyer Offline
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#26
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
Smokey.
When you say clarity ? Are you refering to the collars ankle and wrist cuffs mentioned as a requirement in the fuelers section but not in the attendants bit ? I am assuming that a suit that meets  EN 531/533 / NFPA 2112. will be OK, with or with cuffs etc for the attendants. 
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24-06-2015, 08:36 AM
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Splashdown Offline
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#27
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
My man has just sent me photos of the labels inside those expensive overalls that were bought especially for the re-fueler at last year's Classic. They told us that the other pit crew could use existing overalls, but these were the ones that were going to be required in future.

So the new ones were:

1st label
"complies with ISO6940. FIA86 Rules"

Next label:
"The fabric conforms with EN533, limited flame spread (ISO14116)"

Next label
"flame retardancy of the fabric meets the requirements of ISO14118: 2008:Index3 ISO11811: 2007 Para 6.7 and ISO 11812: 2008: Para 6.3"

 When you consider the folk that are swanning around who aren't wearing ANY flame retardant material, I DO think the organisers are taking the mickey.
I realise that this directive is coming from the fire service,  NOT the ACU, but the whole situation is a massive overkill, especially in consideration of the large crowd gathered adjacent to the  pit lane.
Surely the biggest risk is in the warming up area where the whole entry is gathered with full tanks of fuel. There's no order to what's going on in there, (as it's not the race track), and there's a mass of media and bare fleshed ladies (nowt wrong with that in the right circumstances!!) milling around.
24-06-2015, 10:23 AM
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Kursaal Flyer Offline
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#28
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
Nick/Smokey
I searched about on the world wide web and from what imformation I can gather the FIA suits seem to be of a stand alone standard all by themselves and even though Nicks last years fuelers suit was to standard FIA86 and conforms to EN533 I cannot find anything standard wise that relates to the FIA8856-2000 the one we require this year. 
So my gut feeling is that is exactly what your fueler is going to have to wear or on the other hand you could just buy a bike that can do 4 laps on one tank of fuel Icon_cool
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(This post was last modified: 24-06-2015, 11:09 AM by Kursaal Flyer.)
24-06-2015, 11:08 AM
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beetroot Offline
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#29
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
Bring the correct kit. we fell foul of the reg changes at this TT. I stupidly assumed the kit i bought for the Manx last year was the same spec i needed, only to be turned away at Tech inspection...needless to say i wasn't happy but I was at fault for not reading and double checking the spec required and it cost me a lot to get them at the last minute.
Interpretation of the written word meant that press stud overalls met the requirement for the 2 attendants at the TT which seemed a bit mad especially as they had to still wear a double layer balaclava. I srongly suspect this will change for next year.

"The attendant responsible for refuelling must wear a suit that meets the higher standard of SFI 3.2A/5 / FIA 8856-2000. The overalls must have collars, ankle and wrist cuffs and be zip up not pop stud. The attendant responsible for refuelling must wear a double layered fireproof balaclava and fireproof gloves while refuelling.
Other members of the Pit Crew must wear a suit that meets the standard of EN 531/533 / NFPA 2112. They must also wear a fireproof balaclava."
TC Racing- Supporting the MGP and TT for way too long...One more year then were definetly quitting, possibly.. maybe .On second thoughts probably not..
24-06-2015, 01:07 PM
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smokey125 Offline
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#30
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
Thanks Splashdown, beetroot, that’s what I was looking for.
Before the regs were published I suspected that the refuellers suit would have to be a higher spec than last year’s Manx as the initial spec we were given a few weeks before the Manx last year were for the FIA 8856-2000 suits. It was mainly the other attendant’s suits I was thinking about. If the proban coated overalls to EN531 and EN533 are still acceptable for this then it’s not too bad as these aren’t very expensive. I suppose the refuellers suits brought last year that doesn’t meet the current requirements can be used by someone else in the pit crew.
Kursaal, your right the FIA specs are a completely standalone spec. In my opinion that is why they are so expensive. Manufactures have to make back the cost of getting them approved with a relatively limited market to sell to.

I'll finish it one day!
24-06-2015, 02:10 PM
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Kursaal Flyer Offline
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#31
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
For those new to fire proof suits myself included I have found this to be a bit of a minefield and some of the costings I found have been quite expensive, I have appealed on here for anybody that knew contacts that could help but the response has been very disapointing.

For those that do not go on there the same topic has been raised on the Manx facebook page and a phone number for NFR (Niel Fitton Racing ) from Manchester. phone  07751 541029 was put on there. I phoned and have spoken to Neil and his wife Kay they seemed very helpful and an all in package price of £400 for all the suits gloves and balaclavas seems very fair which I have ordered.
Give them a call and form your own opionion if you are struggling like me to find the right stuff.  
 
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01-07-2015, 03:08 PM
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Splashdown Offline
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#32
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
Anyone out there still looking for overalls/balaclavas, and fireproof gloves, need look no further than McGill Motorsport in Kirkcaldy, Fife, Scotland. Tel: 01592 654136.
Rachel McGill proved to be most helpful, and price wise, I don't feel that I was ripped off.
Worth a try if you're not yet fixed up.
I have a nice big, chunky, set of SFI 3-2A/5 overalls to wrap around my fuel filler!
11-08-2015, 10:03 PM
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cregnybaa Offline
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#33
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
(24-06-2015, 10:23 AM)Splashdown Wrote: My man has just sent me photos of the labels inside those expensive overalls that were bought especially for the re-fueler at last year's Classic. They told us that the other pit crew could use existing overalls, but these were the ones that were going to be required in future.

So the new ones were:

1st label
"complies with ISO6940. FIA86 Rules"

Next label:
"The fabric conforms with EN533, limited flame spread (ISO14116)"

Next label
"flame retardancy of the fabric meets the requirements of ISO14118: 2008:Index3 ISO11811: 2007 Para 6.7 and ISO 11812: 2008: Para 6.3"

 When you consider the folk that are swanning around who aren't wearing ANY flame retardant material, I DO think the organisers are taking the mickey.
I realise that this directive is coming from the fire service,  NOT the ACU, but the whole situation is a massive overkill, especially in consideration of the large crowd gathered adjacent to the  pit lane.
Surely the biggest risk is in the warming up area where the whole entry is gathered with full tanks of fuel. There's no order to what's going on in there, (as it's not the race track), and there's a mass of media and bare fleshed ladies (nowt wrong with that in the right circumstances!!) milling around.

Well Nick I stand to be corrected here but I believe you are one of the riders reps?, well if that is correct maybe you should make a stand against these latest regs I am sure most of the riders would stand with you as it is just another unnecessary expense to a very expensive meeting. as you say if it is just down to the fire brigade then its not written in stone.
12-08-2015, 06:47 PM
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warrior Offline
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#34
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
Guys, as frustrating as the rules are, its actually a requirement of the Office of Fair Trading that these measures are in place, not the fire brigade.

Unless the event complies they will not grant a petroleum licence for pit lane.
12-08-2015, 07:36 PM
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cregnybaa Offline
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#35
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
I am thankful that I don't race there anymore it is just getting out of hand, there will be lots of competitors turning up with the wrong overalls and then they will be spoken to like children. I have just spent two hours looking on the net and can only say I have not found anything that I would be 100% certain that they are the right ones what a nightmare.
12-08-2015, 08:21 PM
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Kursaal Flyer Offline
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#36
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
Creg. Mcgill and NFR mentioned above seem to be on the case and are in that bussiness , If NFR have time to get there with lots of last minute orders they are hoping to come to the Island during the Manx, they were there trying to help people during the TT with fireproof overall problems.
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13-08-2015, 08:37 AM
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Splashdown Offline
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#37
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
The matter of the upgraded fire protection for the pit stops is probably unavoidable given the general theme of Health and Safety in the modern age. However, it would be ridiculous to see folk walking round the warming up area in ordinary clothing, (such as brolly dollies etc), if the mechanics/attendants have to wear all this clobber. Thus I will be paying special attention to that. We all know that it is overkill, but it aint going to go away, and if there ever was a genuine conflagration, we may be relieved that our protection was of a higher spec. Warrior's comments are, to the best of my knowledge, correct.
The facts are that entries for the event are oversubscribed, and if a few competitors drop out due to the rising costs and issues regarding H & S, then it may be that they would be doing the organisers a favour.
I hear what you all say, it is 40 years since my first race in the Isle of Man, and I have seen so much change. Being still involved as a competitor gives me an ideal opportunity to comment on the state of the event from the inside. I am fairly intolerant of change, and generally not backward in coming forward if something or someone rattle my cage, so I do have a great deal of empathy for the situation that faces us here. However I am not expecting much leeway with regards the specification of pit lane overalls!
My official title by the way, is Riders Liaison Officer for the Manx Grand Prix, not the Classic TT.
13-08-2015, 06:47 PM
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b5070 Offline
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#38
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
This is the end! Brolly girls with overalls, balaclava's and fire retardant brollies is just too much to bear. What on earth will we have to ogle at? Wink
28-08-2015, 05:45 AM
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Kursaal Flyer Offline
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#39
RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
[Image: <a href=][Image: 134.jpg]
A bit like this then.
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13-12-2015, 03:46 PM
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pitlane07 Offline
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#40
Shy  RE: Fire proof pit overalls specification
And your feet wont burn,just melt?
PITLANE 07
25-12-2015, 07:33 AM
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