4 disqualified in mondays race
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#1
4 disqualified in mondays race
i see 4 were disqulified from the superbike race yesterday after post race inspection
anyone have any details as to what regs were not corect
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30-08-2016, 10:07 AM
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Trident Offline
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#2
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
Bruce Anstey's quote that his 350 was going really well in the 250 race might be a clue!  Icon_mrgreen
(This post was last modified: 31-08-2016, 04:55 PM by Malcolm.)
30-08-2016, 10:31 AM
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Alfie Noakes Offline
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#3
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
Just listened to the Manx Radio clip and all the bikes involved apparently were Kawasaki's, the ZXR750 was developed late into the 90's so could be an age thing with the 3 WSB homologation bikes / parts they made - the ZXR750K1 1992/3 ZXR750M1 1994/5 and the last ZX7N1 which was 1996/7, these bikes(I own a K1) have some pretty trick parts as standard and are nothing like the road going versions.
30-08-2016, 10:34 AM
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Malcolm Offline
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#4
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
[Image: classicttlogo.jpg]

Oversized engines believed to be reason for results change

Light shed on disqualifications

It's understood oversized engines were the reason four of the five top finishers in yesterday's Superbike Classic TT Race were disqualified.

The results were changed around 9pm last night (Mon), several hours after the race was completed.

Whilst Michael Dunlop remained the winner, Michael Rutter was promoted from fourth to second and William Dunlop moved into third place.

Sports Editor Tim Glover has more details. - Listen Here



[Image: manxradiomain.gif]


30-08-2016, 12:38 PM
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scaramanga Online
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#5
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
theres a little on iom today listing rumours of quick shifters and possible over sized engines
im interested to see what the offical word is
as we know theres bikes that are very competative that use modern internals and are classed as legal to race
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30-08-2016, 12:41 PM
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Alfie Noakes Offline
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#6
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
Aha the plot thickens somewhat .... I struggle to understand how 4 riders / teams who surely know what happens with post race inspections have gone to the huge effort of putting bikes on the grid that aren't legal, there's absolutely no way you'd get away with it. I can decades ago remember some confusion with a definition of factory tolerance, there was some discussion that if you could buy the pistons over the counter from the bike manufacturer or they could be fitted from new then they were to be included as within a "factory tolerance".
30-08-2016, 01:09 PM
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moistandy Offline
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#7
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
ban them...no better than drugs cheats in other sport.
30-08-2016, 03:04 PM
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Owl Man Offline
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#8
Rolleyes  RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
Doubt this will be the last we here about this. Sounds like a miss interpritation of parts that can't be used, or at least I hope so. If it is about engine internals don't see how the riders can be held responsible so calling them cheats and asking for ban is a bit strong.

Having just listened to the brief radio report I wonder if the same engine tunner was being used by the different teams?
(This post was last modified: 31-08-2016, 04:56 PM by Malcolm.)
30-08-2016, 08:45 PM
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scaramanga Online
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#9
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
you have a good point there regarding engine tunner
and id also suspect its on the similar lines that michael dunlop fell foul of with his r6 engine bought as refreshed engine but done to old regs
with the 750 kawasakis running many different years it possible its simply newer parts in older bike
which is the interesting part as theres a comon belief that the xr 69's dont run gs 1000 internals like the original ones did
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30-08-2016, 10:46 PM
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Sam Pato Offline
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#10
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
These guys are professionals - they've got more to lose from a disqualification than they have to gain from cheating.  

If its anything other than an honest mistake I'll be astonished - remember its no so long ago that someone the caliber of Tony Scott fell foul of such an issue.  It happens.

Will be interested to find out what the issue has been.

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31-08-2016, 08:23 AM
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scaramanga Online
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#11
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
totally agree sam
they all know the top 3 get stripped along with other random picks
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31-08-2016, 12:38 PM
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Alfie Noakes Offline
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#12
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
It's all very odd, I've read that the result had already been officially declared, unless i'm reading that the wrong way i'm assuming that's after any post race inspections ? and it took them until 9pm to make the announcement - how long does it take to measure bore and stroke ? - I have some experience when pitting for the late Neil Kent and the bike was inspected and passed within an hour of the finish, there's no response so far from any of the teams /riders involved and my usually reliable Paddock Gossip Mole namely my Dad who helps out in/on Dennis Trollope's parts van shop hasn't picked up anything at all. Does anybody know if the ZXR's involved have previously finished on the podium or been inspected in this manner before ?
31-08-2016, 03:43 PM
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#13
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
Organisers of the Classic TT have clarified what happened after the Superbike race when two Kawasaki ZXR750s were disqualified from the results, and two other ZXR750 teams declined to submit their machines to examination, and knocked themselves out of the results sheet.
The statement said: “The first three bikes in the Superbike Classic TT Race were selected for post-race eligibility checks. The machines that finished second (Dean Harrison - Silicone Engineering) and third (James Hillier - Greenall Racing) were found to have oversized engines. At that point the machines that finished in the next places were called for the same checks. At this point the machines of Jamie Coward (Mistral Racing) and Horst Saiger (Greenall Racing) were removed from the result by the respective teams, effectively disqualifying themselves.
“This promoted the machine of William Dunlop into a provisional third place, at which point his machine went through the same eligibility checks and was found to comply with the rules. At this point a final result was declared. There were no technical infringements recorded involving the use of quick-shifters and no official protests were lodged by any team or rider.”
Paddock gossip suggests that the capacity of the guilty machines was around 830 to 840cc. There were also rumours that one or more of the ZXRs was equipped with a quick-shifter system, although the organisers’ statement appears to dispel that.
This is believed to be the first year in the Classic TT’s four-year history that automatic post-race technical checks have been carried out on the first three machines in the races. Previously, the only way in which an outlaw bike could have been uncovered was if another competitor had lodged a protest. The Classic TT organisers appear to be demonstrating that cheating will not be tolerated in the future.
- See more at: http://www.bikesportnews.com/news/news-d...mBhuV.dpuf
(This post was last modified: 31-08-2016, 04:57 PM by Malcolm.)
31-08-2016, 04:30 PM
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Alfie Noakes Offline
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#14
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
Aha - thanks for that Benelli, i'm surprised that's the first time they've inspected the top 3, thought it was mandatory for all the racing. I honestly can't see the point of spending all that time/money and more importantly gambling your physical self on something that in effect is a pointless exercise. The obvious cheating explains the lack of response from the teams involved and the cc's mentioned is the size of the big bore kits that were readily available when ZXR's were being sold new.
31-08-2016, 04:50 PM
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sticky Offline
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#15
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
Question....

If a ZXR750 has an 840cc engine and gets disqualified why is it alright to have an XR69 (originally based on the air cooled GS1000 motor) with 1100 or 1200cc oil cooled engines?
31-08-2016, 04:51 PM
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Alfie Noakes Offline
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#16
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
The thinking was flawed to start with, the powers that be seemed to think that everybody would turn up with a load of lovely well prepared period bikes when in reality there just aren't enough competitive period bikes out there and hopefully lots of RC30 OW01's RG500's would turn up too and I don't think the organisers realised just how early in the 80's that GSXR1100's were being sold new, either that or they didn't think anybody would make a brand new replica using that engine, there was a big hoo-hah about the GSXR thing and I remember Nick Jefferies pointing out he was selling them in the family showroom before the cut off date and by the time the first meeting arrived it was too late. Not sure what the answer is to any of it because the wait for a grid full of truly genuine period race bikes that you can get parts for and find somebody to put the motor together will be a long one.
(This post was last modified: 31-08-2016, 05:30 PM by Malcolm.)
31-08-2016, 05:23 PM
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Malcolm Offline
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#17
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
Horst Saiger post on Facebook

My Statement

It's not funny to be disqualified and there are a lot of rumors, so I feel I need to say how I see the whole thing...

For me the Classic TT is a festival and show, the regulations say everything:

The organisers retain the ability to accept an entry for a machine that is not compliant with these regulations if in their view it will enhance the spectacle of the racing.

There's no price money and no championship. 750s against 1300s, handmade high tech bikes against old standard bikes out of a shed, big teams with professional riders against absolute amateurs.

To be honest I didn't take the whole thing too serious. I was just happy to have a good bike with a good team behind it, so I can ride safely around the mountain course.

No, I didn't know that my bike was out of regulations... but I didn't ask and that's only because I didn't really want to know! After the parc ferme my team boss Angus Greenall came to me and told me: Sorry Horst, you're out. Your pistons are 0,5mm too big. It was only a money thing as the 72,5 mm pistons would have been special parts and 3000£ whilst the 73mm are standard at 40£ each.

For sure it was not right and he could have used smaller pistons, but I think he didn't take it too serious as well. He and the whole team are just putting a lot of hard earned money and hundreds of hours in these bikes to give me the best possible bike to be part of this spectacle. I'm not angry with him and I think I would have ridden the bike also when I knew it was out of regulations by 0,5mm – because nobody that I know in the paddock would think that half a millimeter makes any difference at the result! I feel very safe and comfortable on the bike when I know the Greenalls are behind it and that is the main thing for me.

The whole paddock now learned that the Classic TT is not longer a show event, from now on it's proper racing – even the difference in bikes and riders is enormous.

I will stay with the team if they keep on doing the Classic TT and I would be happy to have them behind me with my own racing at the roads as NW200, TT and everywhere else.

Sorry for my englisch....

PS: what does these words in the rules mean?: 
* The onus of ensuring the eligibility of any machine rests solely with the competitor.
31-08-2016, 05:35 PM
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Alfie Noakes Offline
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#18
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
"The organisers retain the ability to accept an entry for a machine that is not compliant with these regulations if in their view it will enhance the spectacle of the racing" ?????? WTF
Well that doesn't add up then because in reality whatever you do to a ZXR750 unless you get the last of line WSB 750's it's never going to match the bhp of a tuned GSXR1100, the ZXR's are well prepared, good looking and hard ridden machines having a good scrap with the bigger cc but heavier inferior handling bikes, it looks good and sounds good - thought that was the whole idea ? They seem to be tying themselves in very subjective in-house knots with the rules n regs and if i'm honest it's starting to smell of politics as opposed to guys putting on a show riding well prepared well matched bikes in a fast manner on the TT course.
31-08-2016, 05:54 PM
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Owl Man Offline
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#19
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
(31-08-2016, 05:35 PM)Malcolm Wrote: Horst Saiger post on Facebook

My Statement

It's not funny to be disqualified and there are a lot of rumors, so I feel I need to say how I see the whole thing...

For me the Classic TT is a festival and show, the regulations say everything:

The organisers retain the ability to accept an entry for a machine that is not compliant with these regulations if in their view it will enhance the spectacle of the racing.

There's no price money and no championship. 750s against 1300s, handmade high tech bikes against old standard bikes out of a shed, big teams with professional riders against absolute amateurs.

To be honest I didn't take the whole thing too serious. I was just happy to have a good bike with a good team behind it, so I can ride safely around the mountain course.

No, I didn't know that my bike was out of regulations... but I didn't ask and that's only because I didn't really want to know! After the parc ferme my team boss Angus Greenall came to me and told me: Sorry Horst, you're out. Your pistons are 0,5mm too big. It was only a money thing as the 72,5 mm pistons would have been special parts and 3000£ whilst the 73mm are standard at 40£ each.

For sure it was not right and he could have used smaller pistons, but I think he didn't take it too serious as well. He and the whole team are just putting a lot of hard earned money and hundreds of hours in these bikes to give me the best possible bike to be part of this spectacle. I'm not angry with him and I think I would have ridden the bike also when I knew it was out of regulations by 0,5mm – because nobody that I know in the paddock would think that half a millimeter makes any difference at the result! I feel very safe and comfortable on the bike when I know the Greenalls are behind it and that is the main thing for me.

The whole paddock now learned that the Classic TT is not longer a show event, from now on it's proper racing – even the difference in bikes and riders is enormous.

I will stay with the team if they keep on doing the Classic TT and I would be happy to have them behind me with my own racing at the roads as NW200, TT and everywhere else.

Sorry for my englisch....

PS: what does these words in the rules mean?: 
* The onus of ensuring the eligibility of any machine rests solely with the competitor.
31-08-2016, 08:22 PM
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Owl Man Offline
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#20
RE: 4 disqualified in mondays race
Looks like James has a different view of things!

http://www.bikesportnews.com/news/news-d...tt-debacle
31-08-2016, 08:23 PM
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