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+--- Thread: 5-cylinder HONDA (/showthread.php?tid=2213)
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5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 27-11-2003
Do me mind play strange tricks at my age, or was there a team of 5-cylinder Hondas in the 1964 TT.
125s were they not ??
Ah were up at t'Bungalow and heard 'em going by in inclement weather...........
But WHO rode them then ???
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 27-11-2003
In 1964 the works Honda's were 4 cylinder. In 1965 Luigi Taveri was on a 5 cylinder 125
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 27-11-2003
Sound Stories.."The 5a cylindri isa verry nica bike!"
I saw it a few years ago at a show, accompanied by its utterly charming rider, Luigi Taveri.
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 27-11-2003
Luigi Taveri, Jim Redman & Ralph Bryans, finished 1 2 and 3 sure they had 10 speed gearboxes as well, they don't sound like that these days.
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 27-11-2003
Do that on me again Elwyn and I am going to throw all my toys out of my pram.
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 27-11-2003
Now I have arrived home I have consulted "Nick Harris" and "Mick Woollett" (TT1907-1989)...Book say "new 4-cylinder 125 in 1964" but no mention of 5-cylinder.. Yet,I also have Sound Stories with Luigi saying "5a-cylinder.."..
Reputed to rev to 16000 with an eight-speed box top speed in excess of 125 mph..
So what's the story folks ?????
Yamaha won the 125 in 1965 but in 1964 Honda won on a "debut" machine-----Surely that was the 5-cylinder ???
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 27-11-2003
IN 1964 HONDA MOTOR COMPANY ENTERED 5 RIDERS
JIM REDMAN-RALPH BRYANS-TOMMY ROBB-KATO TAKAHASHI AND I KASEYA.
LUGI TAVERI ENTERED HIMSELF,ALL WERE LISTED ON 4 CYLINDER MACHINES BUT THEY MAY WELL HAVE BROUGHT OVER THE 5 CYLINDER.TOMMY ROBB WILL HAVE THE ANSWER
IN 1965 THEY ONLY ENTERED THREE MACHINES LUGI TAVERI-N TANIGUCHI AND RALPH BRYANS
JACK AHEARN AND BRUCE BEALE ALSO ENTERED ON 4 CYLINDER MACHINES.
I KNOW HONDA DID USE 5 CYLINDER MACHINES BUT THEY WERE NEVER PUBLISHED IN THE PROGRAMME AS SUCH.ALLWAYS LISTED THEM AS 2 OR 4 CYLINDER
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 27-11-2003
INCIDENTLY AT THE TIME I WAS TOLD HONDA BUILT THE 5 CYLINDER USING THE BORE AND STROKE AND PISTONS FOM THE 50CC TWIN THEY PRODUCED IE 5X 25cc
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 27-11-2003
You could always ask Luigi?
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 27-11-2003
Not me enough goolies for one day but I've gpt Luigi's E-mail if anyone wants to ask him.
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 27-11-2003
me too, so...if you want ask him...email me.
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 28-11-2003
OK kiddies, can I come out to play?
As I understand it, the 5-cylinder 125 first appeared at the Spanish GP in May 1966.
They then brought them to the TT (shock horror, they'd entered as fours!)
Mike H, Luigi Taveri and Ralph Bryans rode them.
They ran like warmed-over sh*t and finished 6th (Hailwood), 7th (Bryans) and 8th (Taveri).
I stand ready to be shot at!!!!!!
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 28-11-2003
spot on larry
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 28-11-2003
Its an interesting quiz quextion come pub discussion? Honda have produced racing bikes of every configuration from 1 to 6 cylinder, or have they?
Discuss
Mike
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 28-11-2003
Hate to shoot at you Larry but the first ever appearance of the RC148 five cylinder Honda 125 was at the Japanese GP at Suzuka in 1965. They were indeed two and a half 50cc twins and produced 34 bhp at 20000 revs, they had eight gears. Bore and stroke was 33x29. The bikes used at the Isle of Man that year (1965) were also on debut but were the 4 cylinder 4RG146 models.
As an aside Honda's first ever GP victory was achieved by Tom Phillis on the 125 at the Spanish GP in 1961. Tom was an Australian who sadly lost his life at the Isle of Man. I have seen the above 5 Cyl bike referred to as an RC149 so someone might be able to clear that one up for me.
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA *PIC* - Anonymous - 28-11-2003
Sorry I am late with this, but here is a little tech info on the bike in question.
The RC148, used in the GP of Japan 1965, had the same bore and stroke as the RC 114, 33 x 29 mm, but the new RC149 gets the same dimensions as the RC116: 35.5 x 25.14 mm.
The crankshaft has a special configuration: the three cylinder part has the crankpins at 120 degrees, the two cylinder part has the crankpins, in the usual Honda fashion, at 180 degrees. Both crankshaft are coupled together at the position of the camshaft drive.
The valve angle is 56 degrees, 24 degrees for the inlet and 32 degrees for the exhaust valves. Lubrication system is by wet sump, with two oil coolers in the sides of the fairing.
There's also an oil temperature gauge. The oil temperature is checked, and the coolers can be covered more or less to maintain the oil temperature within certain limits
Power output is 38 bhp at 20,500 rpm. If you're surprised that this is not 21,500 rpm, just like the RC116 : the complicated crankshaft reduces the mechanical efficiency somewhat, which results in a slightly lower Pme of 15.5 kg/cm2 and a 1000 rpm lower engine speed for maximum power. The polyester petrol tank has an unpainted strip, to check the petrol level.
1965 - The 125 cc class is a total disaster this year.
Honda start the season with last year's 2RC146; they retire in Germany and Spain and end up down the field in France. On the Isle of Man, the 4RC146 makes its debut. Taveri comes in second in Man, the best place of the season(!), and comes in 5th in Holland. In East-Germany and Czechoslovakia the Hondas don't start, in Ulster Bryans finishes 4th, in Monza again no Hondas. In the last GP of the season in Japan, the new 5 cylinder 125 cc is unveiled, and though the bike is streets faster than the Suzukis, Taveri has to retire with an oil leak while leading
1966 - In the 125 cc class, the competition for Honda this year comes from Phil Read and Bill Ivy on Yamahas, not from Suzuki. Taveri takes the title, with Ivy second and Bryans third. The manufacturers' title goes to Honda, with Yamaha second and Suzuki third.
![[Image: src149-2.jpg]](http://www.ttwebsite.com/images/src149-2.jpg)
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 28-11-2003
Got me Don!
As soon as I posted, I realised that I'd omitted the words "in Europe".
I knew about the '65 Japanese GP -- HONEST!!!!!!
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 28-11-2003
I remember reading after the 125cc race that Honda blamed the weather, the day started foggy, cool and damp, the race was delayed for three hours or so, and when the race started it was very warm and dry and the carburettors were set up for the cool damp conditions making the Hondas run too rich. Whereas the Yamaha crew kept a very close eye on the conditions and altered the carbs to suit the conditions. (I think)
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 28-11-2003
Can I kindly ask you Tom what did I do to make you contemplate throwing your toys out of the pram?
Re: 5-cylinder HONDA - Anonymous - 29-11-2003
I think, Elwyn, that Tom was upset that you got in before he did!!
However -- 1965????
Tsk Tsk Tsk