+- TT Website Forum (https://www.ttwebsite.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Isle of Man TT Website (https://www.ttwebsite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: General Discussion (https://www.ttwebsite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=137)
+--- Thread: car crash (/showthread.php?tid=26702)
car crash - Arth - 19-06-2018
It is a rule that you will not ride in the reverse direction,
why as the TT changed this
RE: car crash - Splashdown - 19-06-2018
The tragic events at the TT resulted in a change to procedure after a red flag. Hitherto, for some years, riders would return to the Grandstand in a reverse direction, under the guidance of Travelling Marshals. If there has been a serious accident, it is common for the road to remain closed at the scene of the accident. Thus there was no safe way for race bikes to return to the Grandstand "en masse", for those riders on the far side of the accident.
However, all this seems to have changed during Practice Week, after the Wednesday night's incident, with the Clerk of the Course declaring that no riders would be travelling in a reverse direction in the future.
I have previously stated that riders "stuck" on the Mountain would be very unhappy, if there was a serious incident at (say) the Verandah, during an evening practice, with the light failing, and the weather turning cold and wet. That situation I hope will never happen, but I dare not consider the consequences if indeed that situation arose.
RE: car crash - BrianW - 19-06-2018
I agree, I think there is little option but to return the riders the reverse way, the main bit is UNDER TRAVELLING MARSHALS and that, tragically, didn't happen this time, I fear it is just a terrible human error. Shouldn't the sector marshal they passed have pulled them up as they had no escort ? A horrific incident, and hopefully after the inquiry, one that can never happen again.
RE: car crash - Timmy594 - 19-06-2018
If riders do need to go the wrong way around the course wouldnt it be a good idea now and in the past to use normal road rules. Everyone just stick to the left and obey normal speed limits. If there are no speedos then just ride sensibly. Something as obvious as this might jave saved injuries.
RE: car crash - Splashdown - 19-06-2018
I think that is a very good point Timmy. The issue will have to be overcome somehow, as (speaking as a rider of over 40 years experience), riders simply cannot be left on the roadside (trackside), awaiting the road to reopen.
RE: car crash - scaramanga - 19-06-2018
race bikes don't have speedos you sre correct
and that is maybe 1 reason why they were always escorted back by traveling marshall
aswell as being kept to sensible pace
what we have to remember this incident wasn't normal as the bike or bikes were traveling wrong way very soon after red flags which has never happened before and the officals car was still on route to original incident
and also spare a thought for the people in that car aswell as steve mercer and and his family and team
RE: car crash - Splashdown - 19-06-2018
Well Scaramanga, YOU make a good point too. Of course we have to consider the occupants of the Course Car.
Strange that no names have been given, in order for us to direct our sympathies in their direction.
I am very hopeful that the investigation will be a full and exhaustive one, as, simply, this must NEVER happen again.
RE: car crash - ian333 - 19-06-2018
(19-06-2018, 03:31 PM)Timmy594 Wrote: If riders do need to go the wrong way around the course wouldnt it be a good idea now and in the past to use normal road rules. Everyone just stick to the left and obey normal speed limits. If there are no speedos then just ride sensibly. Something as obvious as this might jave saved injuries.
Simply allowing 2 way traffic leaves you in the same position - you still need to bring the course down from a race direction/both sides of road at speed to a complete stop. Once that has been established, you are free to adopt whatever protocol best serves the situation. Whether or not you go to a 2 way or reverse direction only system, every time a course car, TM, emergency vehicle or racers enters the course, it’s probably less relevant which system you use and more important everyone (including marshals) are all on the even page.
IF the investigation concludes that either scenario is too risky and race/course direction must always be observed, they might want to bring the bikes back on open roads though that might not solve the issue for those riders stopped closest to the incident. Not sure how’s this would play out with insurance but you hear of riders returning on open roads quite often especially during practice.
RE: car crash - Splashdown - 19-06-2018
Ian, you are quite right. I have returned with a faulty machine on back roads many times over the years, and it is as safe as you want to make it, ie speed awareness, and observing the laws of the land.
However, I have never managed it off the Mountain, apart from Creg, Hillberry, and Signpost!!
RE: car crash - ian333 - 19-06-2018
Thank Nick. My guess is this might be the only option (possibly with police escort) after the investigation. Given the coordination needed to allow for reverse course direction within any system this might be the logical outcome. I don’t mean that as a shot of it being allowed in the past but it would be an ‘easy’ conclusion to arrive at to ensure we don’t have a similar incident. Additionally, can’t imagine who’d volunteer to lead the way back to start/finish in the future. Can you imagine tip-toeing around salt bins/Creg Willy’s and down around Glen Helen etc in the hope nothing is coming!!!!!
Marshalled at salt bins/lambfell a few years back and it's completely blind.
RE: car crash - warrior - 19-06-2018
I've already passed the suggestion to the organisers about returning under road rules, riding on the left and in obeyance with speed limits, most if not all bikes have a Pitlane limiter which can be used if required.
I've also suggested a "read back" on all messages relating to clearances to either enter the circuit (for cars etc) or before implementation of reverse travel.
For example as a former pilot I could never enter a runway without reading back the detail of my clearance to Air Traffic Control, this was to confirm to them that I had heard them correctly, received and fully understood all parts of the message, and any conditional information relating to the clearance.
So a call to instigate a reverse direction would require a read back from every sector concerned BEFORE anyone moves.
RE: car crash - kilbil - 19-06-2018
![[Image: bungalow2_3.jpg]](https://s15.postimg.cc/3pezxg9sr/bungalow2_3.jpg)
kilbil
RE: car crash - HammerHead - 20-06-2018
Perhaps the course cars could be fitted with some sort of siren, like emergency services vehicles, so that when they are travelling to an incident everyone on the course (without access to a tetra radio) can hear them coming and would be aware.
RE: car crash - scaramanga - 20-06-2018
With the speeds involved a siren ain't going to have much effect
Think we should just wait and see what comes out of the official inquiry before we start adding our recommendations
RE: car crash - Nev14 - 20-06-2018
No one allowed traffic to be going both ways it was miscommunication of what was going to happen that probably caused the problem. I can assure you Sector 7 marshals did what they could to raise the alarm of bikes returning not under the control of a travelling marshal and in fact managed to stop one or two of the riders.
RE: car crash - taxman - 22-06-2018
I'd heard that Nev - well done to all concerned.
RE: car crash - c iom tt - 22-06-2018
Probably best not to comment on what may or may not have happened until the inquiry is completed.
Whatever the outcome, I hope all that were involved are in agreement with the findings.