Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property
Malcolm Offline
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#1
Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property
[Image: albert-terracehouse.jpg]


Ramsey Commissioners are warning people to be aware of their responsibilities if they invite people into their garden to watch the TT.

To make an area on the TT course prohibited by law, the Department of Infrastructure must get the permission of the owner and occupier of the property.

The occupier of a Commissioners-owned property at 1 Albert Terrace in Ramsey has refused to agree to make their garden a prohibited area.

Ramsey commissioner Richard Radcliffe said:

‘A tenant in Albert Terrace decided that they don’t wish their garden to be a prohibited area and we believe has taken out their own public liability insurance. Under the Occupiers Liability Act 1964, they have a duty of care to anyone they invite into their garden to watch the races.

‘The Act requires the occupier to put in place whatever safety measures they can. Even if you have taken out public liability insurance, it doesn’t absolve you of your duty of care.

‘It would be advisable to take your own legal advice if you intend doing this. Even pubs where spectators gather need to be aware of this.’


The occupier, who did not wish to be named, said:

We received a letter from the TT Marshals’ Association but we have spoken to the Commissioners and told them that we have taken out our own insurance. The previous occupier did not agree to it either. It’s only family members who watch the race from our property.’

A spokesman for the Department of Economic Development said:

‘The Road Races Act 1982 gives the DoI the power to issue a Road Race Order that can prohibit access to any area that the public normally has access to if this is necessary to protect the safety of the public or competitors. 

‘The race organisers, ACU Events, through the DED, will normally make this request to the DoI. In a very few cases the occupier or owner of the property has refused consent. In such circumstances the person responsible is advised that the area has been assessed as high risk by the race organisers and because consent to restrict access to the area has been refused, the insurance arrangements that apply to spectators and spectator areas around the rest of the course may not apply. Members of the public around the course are covered by the insurance between the Auto-Cycle Union and DED.’



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Alan Vincent
04-03-2015, 12:41 PM
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c iom tt Offline
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#2
RE: Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property
I was just about to post the link about this!
I dont know how I feel about it.
Surely, if you were to do a PROPER risk assessment on the WHOLE of the TT course, then most of the course with probably the exception of a lot of the Mountain section where the spectators can veiw from a distance would be ' at risk', so how do the define what should be prohibited?
I was confused about this when they made BalaSpur Farm a prohibited area. I dont recall any accidents there in recent years?
I supose it all makes sense to someone.
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04-03-2015, 12:52 PM
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cregnybaa Offline
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#3
RE: Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property
So whats the difference between that garden and the rest of the course, the land all around the course belongs to someone have they got insurance?. soon you won't be able to watch anywhere only where they can charge you. I was always under the illusion that was why competitors paid insurance for third party claims and is it not illigal to have two claims on one incedent. so if the competitor has insurence why does the land owner need it for the same incedent.
04-03-2015, 02:19 PM
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warrior Offline
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RE: Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property
(04-03-2015, 02:19 PM)cregnybaa Wrote: So whats the difference between that garden and the rest of the course, the land all around the course belongs to someone have they got insurance?. soon you won't be able to watch anywhere only where they can charge you. I was always under the illusion that was why competitors paid insurance for third party claims and is it not illigal to have two claims on one incedent. so if the competitor has insurence why does the land owner need it for the same incedent.

This isn't new, its been the case for a few years now, and it came into increased focus after the Bray Hill incident.

Basically, if the organisers deem that an area should be restricted or prohibited, and that area is in private ownership, they obviously cannot enforce the restriction, or prohibition without the consent of the owner of the land or property in question.

If co-operation by the land or property owner is not forthcoming, the organisers cannot force the issue, as the organisers don't own the land, so they can't make anyone comply.

But they can put in writing that they will not be responsible for any damage or injury in that area, should the owner choose to ignore their request.

Its standard stuff.
04-03-2015, 02:48 PM
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c iom tt Offline
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RE: Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property
But what if as in the case of this House owner, they dont give consent for it to be a restricted area, and a bike damages there property in an accident. and causes personal injury when the ocupiers are going about there normal day to day routine, (family barbaque etc) the the ACU and its insurance would still have to pay up?
I would it would be a different situation if the land owners were charging people to watch from there ( Conker feilds for example), but as I have posted previously, this has a potential knock on effect for a good part of the course.
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04-03-2015, 04:15 PM
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badlyoverdrawnboy Offline
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#6
RE: Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property
(04-03-2015, 04:15 PM)c iom tt Wrote: But what if as in the case of this House owner, they dont give consent for it to be a restricted area, and a bike damages there property in an accident. and causes personal injury when the ocupiers are going about there normal day to day routine, (family barbaque etc) the the ACU and its insurance would still have to pay up?
I would it would be a different situation if the land owners were charging people to watch from there ( Conker feilds for example), but as I have posted previously, this has a potential knock on effect for a good part of the course.

I've always been a bit nervous about this, as a lawyer, because when you think about it in elf and safety terms a person is perfectly entitled to occupy their property and go about their lawful business, If you do a risk assessment the risk all stems from the race activity and if the organisers can't ensure that the bikes (or more probably subarus) can operate without endangering householders then they need to modify or cease the activity or install adequate safety measures. You can't pass responsibility for a danger you create onto an innocent third party. The problem here is that they have, in effect, decided that there are areas which are unsafe and designated them in effect admitting they can't control the risk they are creating. Now, if this was to happen 'Across', then the property owner would go and get an injunction against the organiser because at the end of the day the races are just people having fun and it is easy for the organisers to make it 100% safe by not racing.  Its like you taking up archery and telling your neighbour that if you shoot his mother in law in the garden its at his risk and he should not use his garden or insure against it (or do a risk assessment and pile some sandbags up and have you pay to have him trained to be more accurate). of course Manx courts are a law unto themselves so anything could happen but all the insurance will be done under english law in an english court, I would have thought that a householder writing to the organiser pointing out that they were having a garden party on raceday and pointing out it is the ACUs duty not to carry out activities which would endanger them would put the wind up the insurance company, a property owners right to free enjoyment of his property would almost certainly 'trump' another party's right to interfere with those rights in the name of sport and making money. What was needed when they made the legislation re the prohibited areas was to be able to declare them without the owners consent but they would have been told that they would have been liable to pay compensation to the landowners, in deciding not to do that they have left themselves in a very sticky situation, its a good job the island isn't part of the EU and hasn't got the Human Rights nonsense we have here otherwise the races would be over.
I do agree that landowners charging the public are in a different boat though
04-03-2015, 05:53 PM
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V Twin Mechanic Offline
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#7
RE: Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property
How long before everyone who watches a TT race will have to wear ear protectors and safety glasses ?
04-03-2015, 06:18 PM
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warrior Offline
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#8
RE: Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property
I suppose what the organisers could potentially do in this situation is erect a 12 foot high fence against the outside wall of the property in question, but would this then need planning permission? as it would or could obscure the property owners view, and therefore deny the property owner enjoyment of the property?

As you say this is potentially dangerous ground to be treading in relation to the future of the event.
04-03-2015, 08:58 PM
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serowmaster Offline
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#9
RE: Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property
(04-03-2015, 06:18 PM)V Twin Mechanic Wrote: How long before everyone who watches a TT race will have to wear ear protectors and safety glasses ?

and hard hat and boots not to mention hi-vis jacket , plus fill out a risk assessment form of where you are sitting/standing , you can see it coming right round the corner at us smilie

GETTING OLD IS MANDATORY FEELING OLD IS OPTIONAL smilie
04-03-2015, 09:36 PM
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Alfie Noakes Offline
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#10
RE: Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property
(04-03-2015, 09:36 PM)serowmaster Wrote:
(04-03-2015, 06:18 PM)V Twin Mechanic Wrote: How long before everyone who watches a TT race will have to wear ear protectors and safety glasses ?

and hard hat and boots not to mention hi-vis jacket , plus fill out a risk assessment form of where you are sitting/standing , you can see it coming right round the corner at us smilie

Don't forget the "Toolbox Talks" and an onsite induction on how to use a kettle/teapot/cooker when making tea and bacon butties .. Oh and the visitors signing in/out book and signs various - COSHH Control of Substances Hazardous to Health, Drug and Alcohol Abuse - apparently these adversely affect you, Heavy Lifting and WTF that bloke standing behind your van is waving at when you're reversing.
04-03-2015, 09:53 PM
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ali Offline
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#11
RE: Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property
H & S I get to wear a white coat and stand in the middle of Glencrutchery Road with my red flag for the split practice sessions. Hence the nickname Madcow
The people that live in this house have stated on facebook today that they have never been approached by anyone regarding the insurance / prohibited area
05-03-2015, 11:26 PM
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ali Offline
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#12
RE: Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property
I have copied and pasted this but left of names etc



this is my house and we are furious with this as we have not been approcahed by any authorities, thhis pic was taken without our ppermission and no has spoken to us re this write up!














Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property


Ramsey Commissioners are warning people to be aware of their responsibilities if they invite people into their garden to watch the TT.


iomtoday.co.im
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2015, 11:30 PM by ali.)
05-03-2015, 11:29 PM
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Steady the Edward Offline
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#13
RE: Insurance warning if people watch Isle of Man TT from your property
Could the confusion here be that the statement from the Ramsey Commissioners says

‘A tenant in Albert Terrace decided that they don’t wish their garden to be a prohibited area and we believe has taken out their own public liability insurance.

the emphasis being on ( a tenant of Albert Terrace ) rather than THE tenant of number one Albert Terrace and then the Photographer from the newspaper has gone and taken a photo of the street name that just happens to be on the wall garden of number one , so now people think that the tenant of number one is THE (a tenant ) when clearly they aren't
Journalist's for you !! along with people who skip read confusing the masses lol

.
07-03-2015, 12:07 AM
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