GM Speeding on Pit Row
Hot Wings Offline
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#1
GM Speeding on Pit Row
.9 sec to fast on pit row. Is the gun that accurate? I mean could that be a mistake by the gun? I'm guessing that's about a blink of an eye.
08-06-2015, 07:59 PM
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Muddles Offline
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#2
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
I was under the impression that riders/bikes used limiters in the pit lane to stop acidental speeding. Especially after it cost Guy so dearly last time.
09-06-2015, 06:38 AM
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Westers Offline
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#3
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
(08-06-2015, 07:59 PM)Hot Wings Wrote: .9 sec to fast on pit row. Is the gun that accurate? I mean could that be a mistake by the gun? I'm guessing that's about a blink of an eye.

0.9 km/h, not seconds, and yes it can be that accurate. As a result he messed up what could have been 3rd, but he was never challenging for the win.

Pit lane speed limit has been there for 5 years now, so plenty of time for people to get it right (and to test).
09-06-2015, 08:07 AM
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Kursaal Flyer Offline
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#4
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
Guy got nicked the other year for a closer to the limit infrigement there is a limit stay below it . Simples !
Old enough to know better, young enough to have given it a go ! Icon_cool
09-06-2015, 08:36 AM
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civ Offline
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#5
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
Yes, it's that accurate, even when used on a popular rider.

The limiters on the bikes may not be, but they can set them lower than 60 (and test them in practice week against the official speed) to account for that.
09-06-2015, 08:56 AM
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Douglas Bay Offline
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#6
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
(09-06-2015, 08:07 AM)Westers Wrote: 0.9 km/h, not seconds, and yes it can be that accurate. As a result he messed up what could have been 3rd, but he was never challenging for the win.
Pit lane speed limit has been there for 5 years now, so plenty of time for people to get it right (and to test).

(09-06-2015, 08:56 AM)civ Wrote: Yes, it's that accurate.

Serious question. How do you know it is that accurate. How do you know it is more accurate than the equipment on the bikes. The simple fact is you do not know.

It is impossible for any two instruments to read exactly the same, and to be calibrated the same. Impossible.

There must be a ± tolerance. Maybe there is an agreed tolerance, but if not it makes a total farce of the whole procedure.
09-06-2015, 09:33 AM
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canamant Offline
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#7
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
Limiters are useless if the rider is going faster than the limiter is set at when he activates it.  It doesn't slow you down, just stops you accelerating past the set point.  You need to slow below the limit first.
09-06-2015, 09:52 AM
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Latino Offline
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#8
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
(09-06-2015, 09:33 AM)Douglas Bay Wrote:
(09-06-2015, 08:56 AM)civ Wrote: Yes, it's that accurate.

Serious question. How do you know it is that accurate. How do you know it is more accurate than the equipment on the bikes. The simple fact is you do not know.

It is impossible for any two instruments to read exactly the same, and to be calibrated the same. Impossible.

There must be a ± tolerance. Maybe there is an agreed tolerance, but if not it makes a total farce of the whole procedure.
The pit lane speed measurement is done using the same transponder on the bike (and detection loops under the road) that is used for race timing. If you accept that said transponders are accurate enough to give lap & race speeds to 3 decimal places at speeds approaching 200mph then they ought to be accurate to one decimal place for something travelling at less than 40mph. The pit lane speed measurement system is active right through Practice Week and all the teams can use the readings from it to set/adjust their pit lane speed limiters on the bikes. Remember the limiter works by controlling the engine RPM to a set value, not controlling by the bike to a set speed. Therefore the ground speed when the pit lane limiter is operative can be altered on any bike by changing the sprockets.

I'd love to see things from your perspective but unfortunately ........... I find it impossible to get my head that far up my a$$
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2015, 10:05 AM by Latino.)
09-06-2015, 10:04 AM
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civ Offline
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#9
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
(09-06-2015, 09:33 AM)Douglas Bay Wrote: There must be a ± tolerance. Maybe there is an agreed tolerance, but if not it makes a total farce of the whole procedure.

Quite the opposite. It makes a farce of the whole race if we can't trust the speed/time measuring equipment to be that accurate.
09-06-2015, 10:18 AM
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excollier Offline
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#10
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
Don't you just love tech overkill?
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Long live real road racing!!
09-06-2015, 10:20 AM
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Kursaal Flyer Offline
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#11
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
(09-06-2015, 09:33 AM)Douglas Bay Wrote:
(09-06-2015, 08:07 AM)Westers Wrote: 0.9 km/h, not seconds, and yes it can be that accurate. As a result he messed up what could have been 3rd, but he was never challenging for the win.
Pit lane speed limit has been there for 5 years now, so plenty of time for people to get it right (and to test).

(09-06-2015, 08:56 AM)civ Wrote: Yes, it's that accurate.

Serious question. How do you know it is that accurate. How do you know it is more accurate than the equipment on the bikes. The simple fact is you do not know.

It is impossible for any two instruments to read exactly the same, and to be calibrated the same. Impossible.

There must be a ± tolerance. Maybe there is an agreed tolerance, but if not it makes a total farce of the whole procedure.
If you need a tolerance set it in yourself by dialing in a lower speed to your bike to ensure you do not speed . While the bike is moving these races can be lost it the pit lane ! But not won !
Old enough to know better, young enough to have given it a go ! Icon_cool
09-06-2015, 11:05 AM
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AndyL Offline
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#12
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
(09-06-2015, 09:33 AM)Douglas Bay Wrote: Serious question. How do you know it is that accurate. How do you know it is more accurate than the equipment on the bikes. The simple fact is you do not know.

It is impossible for any two instruments to read exactly the same, and to be calibrated the same. Impossible.

There must be a ± tolerance. Maybe there is an agreed tolerance, but if not it makes a total farce of the whole procedure.

It doesn't matter whether it's accurate. It is the reference for the pit lane speed limit. The limit is 60kph as shown by the pit lane speed radar. That's why the teams get the opportunity to calibrate their own speed limiters against it during practice.

It matters that it's precise, but that's a different thing.
09-06-2015, 11:11 AM
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veefour Offline
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#13
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
Well I wish Guy a good incident free race in the Superstock today smilie.
Grey-haired riders don't get that way from pure luck.
09-06-2015, 11:44 AM
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eman1948 Offline
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#14
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
Perhaps all limiters on the bikes should be set to 50 kph that can be engage before take off to be set by one of the pit crew. Just a suggestions but open to be shot down In flames.
09-06-2015, 12:08 PM
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cregnybaa Offline
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#15
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
I think the pit stop time should be deducted from the race time. that would allow competitors to come into the pits at a safe speed and change wheels / refuel etc safely, i think a window of about 2 mins would be enough.
09-06-2015, 12:26 PM
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Kursaal Flyer Offline
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#16
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
(09-06-2015, 12:26 PM)cregnybaa Wrote: I think the pit stop time should be deducted from the race time. that would allow competitors to come into the pits at a safe speed and change wheels / refuel etc safely, i think a window of about 2 mins would be enough.

Totally agree with a minimum stop time it would take the pressure of the rider and the crew, making the whole thing a lot safer if this was in place a few years ago the crews might not now look liked they are part of an armed gang !
Old enough to know better, young enough to have given it a go ! Icon_cool
09-06-2015, 12:31 PM
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smokey125 Offline
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#17
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
Seen this one discussed a lot of times here are a few simple statements about the whole pit lane speed limit.
First and foremost as a rider/helper who has been both sides of the process with most of the different systems we’ve had in the pit lane over the last few years the current system is by far the best. Ok this is just my opinion but most people directly involved with the pits seem to agree with this.
Accuracy of the system is not really an issue, neither is calibration, for the following reasons.
It is controlled by the transponders.
These use fixed loops in the pit lane, so they never change.
The individual transponder on each bike is the same so it will trigger the signal at the same point relatively to each loop.
So the speed recorded for every bike will be calculated in the same way using directly comparable measures. Even if the speed recorded is not 100% accurate, it is so close to being 100% repeatable to not have to worry about a tolerance. Every rider gets a chance to compare their own limiter/speed/rev counter against the controlled pit lane results during practice. This negates the need to have a tolerance on the pit lane speed limit. You can adjust your own kit to suit the control information. This is effectively you calibration.
Ultimately the responsibility to get the limiter set right is the teams and it’s the riders to make sure he gets down to the speed and switches it on.

I'll finish it one day!
09-06-2015, 01:33 PM
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Muddles Offline
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#18
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
If a rider hits the rev limiter at 60kph as his speedo indicates, to zero decimal places, but the pit lane strip measures you at 60.9, how can anyone be to blame?
Yes a rider can hit it at 59, but the limit is 60 and that is when guy has applied the limiter, as actually proved by the trap.
10-06-2015, 08:09 AM
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Westers Offline
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#19
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
The pit lane strip is the reference point in all of this as it will measure and return the same results every time. Hence you set your system up to make sure you don't break the pit lane reference point, and test to make sure you're not breaking that measuring system.

Saying that your own system said you were doing 60 (or rather, you worked out from the rev limit that you should be doing 60), is pointless if the measuring device doesn't agree. Set the system so the measuring device agrees and you'll be fine.

I don't understand the uproar around this - 40 odd other riders managed to get it right so it can't be a bad system. If everyone was getting penalties then you would have to look at the setup.

Anyway, it only robbed Guy of a possible 3rd place - not the win.
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2015, 08:33 AM by Westers.)
10-06-2015, 08:28 AM
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canamant Offline
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#20
RE: GM Speeding on Pit Row
Smokey - I knew the pit lane system used the ground loops but I thought the set up opportunities were just using the radar system during the one or two sessions when we were sent out through the pitlane from parc ferme rather than at the top of the pitlane or from the bottom of the pitlane itself.  My bikes were not fitted with a speed limiter - I just used the read out from the radar and went through at about 50 - 55kmh.  Looking back on the data we were in the top 2 or 3 pit stop times - pity that wasn't reflected in the race results !
10-06-2015, 10:44 AM
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