SILJA
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RE: Course improvements
(14-12-2014, 10:15 PM)Alfie Noakes Wrote: What did you mean by this then ? - "Which means , for my eyes, that the modern big bikes already are too fast for the circuit". The road/corner changes at Quarry, Windy and Brandish weren't specifically/uniquely made to make the bikes go or lap faster they were made to improve the ease of use for the public with their cars/bikes/trucks etc on open roads and much of the road surface improvements and repairs are what happens naturally over time with repairs due to degradation, if they wanted to make it "easier" and faster then the run from Ginger Hall to Ramsey would get properly smoothed out - but it hasn't has it ?. The only part of the circuit I can remember being specifically changed/worked to aid the racing on is the crest of Bray Hill where there was road planing works involved with the bump and manhole cover after the tragic sidecar race in 1978. The recent changes at Hillberry involved closed road speed testing but again the road surface was due for renewal and the racing was taken into account, it wasn't specifically changed or altered because of an intrinsic problem with bike racing or to make the bikes faster through there - the dip/depression on the apex area is still there. The course is what it is and is matched by the evolution of man and his machine and speaking from a fair bit of very personal/mates/fellows experience since growing up on the IoM - a racing bike is never ever going to be too fast.
Of course I fully understand that the changes on the circuit aren't made to improve the lap speeds. But as a spin off effect, a better surface to ride on creates faster speeds.
I believe that that's the main reason for the improving lap times. About your question to me: "What did you mean by this then ?" - "Which means , for my eyes, that the modern big bikes already are too fast for the circuit". My reply is that "for my eyes" means my very personal opinion. I will never try to force someone else to have the same opinion as me. But a fact is that 2006 a rider couldn't give full gas at 85% of the lap on a big bike. What does that mean?
Don't be that optimistic! The light in the tunnel can be a train.
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14-12-2014, 11:35 PM |
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Patf
Just Getting Started
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RE: Course improvements
Slightly off topic, but does any part of the course now stand out at where improvements would decrease lap times ? I suppose I'm thinking of Ginger Hall to Ramsey being smoothed out. Though never having raced there how much time could be gained ?
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15-12-2014, 10:45 PM |
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taxman
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RE: Course improvements
(15-12-2014, 10:45 PM)Patf Wrote: Slightly off topic, but does any part of the course now stand out at where improvements would decrease lap times ? I suppose I'm thinking of Ginger Hall to Ramsey being smoothed out. Though never having raced there how much time could be gained ?
The problem with that stretch is twofold;
Firstly as already pointed out, there are numerous tree roots etc. These are continually moving as they grow and die and this means that any surface is inherently unstable.
Secondly, look at the geography. On your right you have hills and on your left (if you ever explore it in any detail) is the flood plain of the Sulby River. This is a very swampy area as it provides a route for water to run of the hills and into the river. The road has been built on the edge of the swamp which means that under the surface the ground is soft. The passage of lorries and busses over the top just adds to the problems the tree roots create.
There's a similar swampiness (is that a word?) on the roads from Sulby Bridge to St Judes and Sulby Crossroads to Sandygate. Both have been resurfaced comparatively recently and both are now as bumpy as they ever were. The Sandygate Road (Clanagh Road) is a shocker. I remember riding a Suzuki GP100 down it as a teenager and being bounced off the seat by the road surface.
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31-12-2014, 02:23 PM |
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Dougboy
Unregistered
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RE: Course improvements
(26-12-2014, 06:02 PM)SILJA Wrote: I knew I've heard it before! Someone saying that the bikes are too fast for a track. Now I know where. It's in the old film "The Road Racers". I'm not a native but for my ears it sounds like a rider maybe Joey Dunlop says, "the bikes are getting far too quick for the investments of the course" concerning the Cookstown circuit... That proves that I'm not alone...
"I think the big bikes have been here long enough and it's time to have a limit of 600cc." Steve Hislop, 1989.
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02-01-2015, 12:17 PM |
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Splashdown
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RE: Course improvements
Having ridden a 650 in the last two year's Super Twins Manx, I can assure you that these bikes seem SO slow round the TT course.
For most of the way it's 5th and 6th gear, and they never seem too quick for the course. 600s are around the horsepower that 750s had when Hizzy complained that they were too fast for the course. Interesting.
If you ask the modern rider, I think they would tend to agree that a Superbike round the TT course is a real handful, and only a top rider at the peak of his strength can get the best out of them. That's always been the case. They were saying that about Guthrie, Frith, Simpson, Woods, and Daniell before WW2.
I'm sure that a 600 would be a fabulous bike to race round the TT course, I'd love to have a go. But I'm sure that I could not now cope with a Superbike.
It should not escape your notice that the course has really changed over the years, and the mindless obliteration of Windy and Brandish, has done nothing to enhance the quality of the course. It has merely highlighted how fast the top bikes are travelling around most of the course, i.e. between 160 and 190mph.
As Alfie Noakes has said, quite rightly, are there any less accidents in the smaller classes? I really don't think so, but I'm sure that there a statistics to show which way the accident figures are going.
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02-01-2015, 01:33 PM |
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Dougboy
Unregistered
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RE: Course improvements
(02-01-2015, 01:33 PM)Splashdown Wrote: Having ridden a 650 in the last two year's Super Twins Manx, I can assure you that these bikes seem SO slow round the TT course.
For most of the way it's 5th and 6th gear, and they never seem too quick for the course. 600s are around the horsepower that 750s had when Hizzy complained that they were too fast for the course. Interesting.
If you ask the modern rider, I think they would tend to agree that a Superbike round the TT course is a real handful, and only a top rider at the peak of his strength can get the best out of them. That's always been the case. They were saying that about Guthrie, Frith, Simpson, Woods, and Daniell before WW2.
I'm sure that a 600 would be a fabulous bike to race round the TT course, I'd love to have a go. But I'm sure that I could not now cope with a Superbike.
It should not escape your notice that the course has really changed over the years, and the mindless obliteration of Windy and Brandish, has done nothing to enhance the quality of the course. It has merely highlighted how fast the top bikes are travelling around most of the course, i.e. between 160 and 190mph.
As Alfie Noakes has said, quite rightly, are there any less accidents in the smaller classes? I really don't think so, but I'm sure that there a statistics to show which way the accident figures are going. In fairness Splashdown, I'm fairly sure (and a local could probably confirm) that the Brandish was a bit an accident blackspot for normal traffic and that was the chief driver for its alteration.
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02-01-2015, 02:30 PM |
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Dougboy
Unregistered
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RE: Course improvements
(03-01-2015, 12:07 PM)Alfie Noakes Wrote: I don't recall Steve Hislop complaining about the genuine jewel of a factory RVF750 RC30 that Honda brought over for him, the thing was a missile but handled very well as do today's Superbikes, I can remember watching up on the Mountain and the way that RVF accelerated out of Bungalow up towards Brandywell was astounding compared to the other bikes. The Superbike's of today are fast but they handle, steer, track and change direction very well and the TT challenge for me has and always will be just how fast the rider can get himself and his machine around the course.
In the account I have, he is not complaining about the HRC prepped RC30, though he did swap the forks and shock for those from his own. He described it as a jet, and was arriving at sections so much faster that he had to recalibrate his riding. That's what lead him to make the comments about the big bikes being too much. An excursion onto the footpath in Kirk Michael and other tragic events that week probably contributed also.
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04-01-2015, 01:16 AM |
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