The old jump at Ballaspur: any shot?
Marco Offline
Member
***

Posts: 70
Threads: 16
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation: 0
#1
The old jump at Ballaspur: any shot?
I've read on both the excellent Ray Knight's books about the TT course (i.e. "TT racing", 1974; "TT rider's guide", 1989) that one time there was a _great jump_ at Ballaspur few yards after Ballacraine's corner. That of Ballaspur is one of those TT course jumps that have desappeared during the years. Ray Knight writes: "The jump at Ballaspur is just one of those places that make the TT course what it is...". It was a very difficult jump as the rider had to do it just while he was cornering at Ballaspur. I deduce that this jump was tamed in the period between 1974 and 1988, as Ray Knight in is 1989's book describes it as "virtually disappeared".

The interesting thing is that at Ballig Bridge - i.e. on the bridge placed between Ballaspur and Doran's bend - there was an other high jump that during the 20's-30's, as G.S. Davison writes in his famous "The Story of the T.T., used to be the most spectacular spot on the TT course. And the shots from those days seem to confirm it. This jump was suppressed in the middle 30's I think.

I'd love to see a shot from the Ballaspur's jump...
22-06-2006, 12:50 PM
Find Reply
Bill Snelling Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 435
Threads: 147
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 0
#2
 
Can't find any shots of a jump at Ballaspur, but there was a BIG jump at Ballagarraghyn, about a quarter of a mile before Ballacraine, I have a shot of Les Graham nose-diving the 500 MV there.
The Ballig Bridge jump was filled in both sides to level it, it was a real wheel-breaker in the 1920s!
Harold Rowell was a stand-in stunt rider for No Limit - after the professionals had both ended up in Noble's Hospital. He was told to make a spectacular leap at Ballig. He practiced for weeks to make sure he could land on the x marked on the road.
Come the day of filming, he flew over at a great height, to find the cameraman was standing on the X!
22-06-2006, 10:08 PM
Website Find Reply
John Foster Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 423
Threads: 63
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation: 1
#3
 
I have an old, unused TT postcard showing a rider airborne over Ballig bridge. It looks like one from the twenties, judging by the large crowds of Hovis-capped spectators spilling onto the road.

Ballaspur and Ballig are sometimes written together in accounts.

Ballagarraghyn Bridge was another famous jump where the bikes would leave the ground for about 20 yards. It is said that, if the jump was still there now, John McG and company might not get back to earth until it was too late to brake for Ballacraine.
22-06-2006, 11:42 PM
Find Reply
GriffMuss Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 260
Threads: 32
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 0
#4
 
Ballagarraghyn Bridge was another famous jump where the bikes would leave the ground for about 20 yards. It is said that, if the jump was still there now, John McG and company might not get back to earth until it was .....too late to brake for Ballacraine.

Lol Lol Lol
22-06-2006, 11:50 PM
Website Find Reply
John Foster Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 423
Threads: 63
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation: 1
#5
 
.............and Gail Musson might not come back down before she reached Peel! smilie
22-06-2006, 11:57 PM
Find Reply
thewitch
Unregistered

 
#6
 
Ah, well, time for an ice cream!
23-06-2006, 06:52 AM
Reply
Marco Offline
Member
***

Posts: 70
Threads: 16
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation: 0
#7
 
Bill, many thanks for the reply. Yes, Ballagarraghyn was a big jump now disappeared. It would be interesting to try and understand *when* it disappeared from the TT course. It must be disappeared before the 60's as Ray Knight, whose TT course career started in 1962, in his 1974's book do not mention it (while he mentions it in his 1989's).

About the shot of Graham's shot, is it this?: http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/9163/lg...9539bd.jpg
It's a shot from 1953 TT practice that portrays Graham on the 500cc. MV on which he would have found his death few days later.

Also in your "The Tourist Trophy in old photogtaphs" there is a beautiful shot of Jock West flying at Ballagarraghyn in 1948.

About the Ballaspur's jump, it's really a pity that you do not have a shot from that place. Knight describes it as a very spectacular spot!
23-06-2006, 09:12 AM
Find Reply
Splashdown Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 554
Threads: 32
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 0
#8
 
I clearly remember a photo of Peter Williams, and my brother Tony Jefferies taken at Ballaspur in the wet 1973 Production TT with Peter's wheel pawing the air at Ballaspur. I think it was in MCN. Anyone have that? This was that race that Tony won on Slippery Sam, after Peter retired with gearbox problems. It was a last minute ride for Tony as the Triumph factory was shut at the time. I think that Les Williams actually rode the bike to Liverpool in the nick ot time to get the bike over and qualified.
Anyway, the Ballaspur jump was flattened out in 1976, as I believe it was still there the first year I rode,(1975).
23-06-2006, 10:33 AM
Find Reply
Don Simons Away
Senior Member
****

Posts: 445
Threads: 28
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 0
#9
 
From what I have read there is a rise up to Ballaspur. Also the inside of the left hander has been boarded so that riders do not contact the rock wall where Richard Quayle came to grief. In fact the famous clip of Richard's accident does show his machine appear with the front wheel off the ground, however this could be due to contacting the wall.
Les Graham seemed to be fond of jumping, there are some famous shots of him taking off and landing the MV4 on the Clady circuit in the Ulster GP 1952. There is also a shot of him off the ground on a left hander with stone wall beside him in the 1952 Senior TT. If I can find it I will post it.
Rest in Peace Don Simons 1942 - 2012
23-06-2006, 11:22 AM
Find Reply
Marco Offline
Member
***

Posts: 70
Threads: 16
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation: 0
#10
 
Nick, it's really an honour to speak with a TT hero! According to what I know the TT course had many road improvements for the 1977 edition. It was the year of the suppression of the Snugborough corner at Union Mills, isn't it? So it's probable that the Ballaspur jump was flattened after the 1976 TT and before the 1977 TT.

It would be really an interesting thing to write a _detailed_ history of the changes of the TT course during the years. I think that in the last 30 years the two greatest changes happened on the TT course have been that for the 1977 TT and that for the 1985 TT (the remaking of the Quarry bends section). I saw on the 1974 Knight's book a photo of the first part of the Quarry section and it's really hard to recognize it! There was a lot of trees and adverse camber on the roads - now it's a permanent circuit TT coourse section!

Other interesting thing. Both in the 1974 and 1989 books, Ray mentions the Glen Auldyn jump as "now almost flattened". So I deduce that it must have been flattened after the 1962 (first TT course experience of Ray) and before the 1973.
23-06-2006, 11:56 AM
Find Reply
Marco Offline
Member
***

Posts: 70
Threads: 16
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation: 0
#11
 
Don, yes I saw that famous videoclip of "Milky" Quayle's accident: http://www.bernd-bouillon.de/html/streckenkarte.html

It's difficult to understand if the cause of the front wheel's lifting was the contact on the wall on the left hand or a wrong riding approach to the remaining difference in level of the road. The right hypothesis should also explain the fact that Richard had his arms in the air.

About Graham, it would be great to see the shot you're speaking about!
23-06-2006, 01:02 PM
Find Reply
Don Simons Away
Senior Member
****

Posts: 445
Threads: 28
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 0
#12
 
Marco, a friend of mine used to live at Glen Auldyn and told me that he spoke to Joey about where he lived and Joey, who by his own admission did not know all the names of the features around the course, said that he knew the place because it was 'the last jump before Ramsey'.
Now that story was told to me in 2000 so it could not have been many years prior to that when the conversation with Joey took place.
I thought the jump was still there.
I will send copies of the Les Graham photos to Salerno when I find them.
Rest in Peace Don Simons 1942 - 2012
23-06-2006, 01:29 PM
Find Reply
Marco Offline
Member
***

Posts: 70
Threads: 16
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation: 0
#13
 
Don, the jump at Glen Auldyn is still in existence (there are much videos taken from there) but it has been "tamed" (we italian say "addomesticato"). From what I've read it was a much higher jump than it's now. This is what Ray Knight writes about it in his 1974 "TT racing":

"Now resurfaced, it used to be a real nerve tester and spectators on the wall to the left hand side could see some really wortyhwhile 'wobblies' as the bikes landed and immediately turned right as they landed. It is still maybe worth a brief visit but it is not so spectacular now".

A similar concept is expressed in the 1989 "TT rider's guide" by the same autor.

So, yes. The jump is still there but according to Knight's opinion in the past it was a much higher one. The difficult thing in that point is that there is a very fast right corner just after the jump. From the 2004 camera bike from the lamented Britton we can see that the speed in that corner is well over the 130 mph. It's a flat out corner.

Many thanks in advance for the Graham photos! But if you prefer you could simply e-mail me a scan of them.
23-06-2006, 01:52 PM
Find Reply
Splashdown Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 554
Threads: 32
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 0
#14
 
You are right Marco. A book COULD be written on the changes to the course, even the changes in the last 31years. Anyway, there is no way that the front wheel comes airborne at Ballaspur today, the reason for Milky's crash would probably be misjudgement at the "new" high speeds the riders travel at.In fairness to Milky, why don't we ask him what caused the accident? In 1975 Ballaspur was "flat out" on a TD2B, and it was a pretty good feeling to feel the front wheel lifting.
Anyway, on to Glen Audlyn. There was a super photo of John Surtees in the 1960 Senior TT taken at this spot. So it must have been "flattened out" around 1962, since if you hit the spot today in the way that J.S. was riding, you wouldn't land before Ramsey Docks.
What nobody has recognised is the fact that the bikes reach Glen Audlyn after Milntown doing about 150-160mph, whereas any British single from the early 60's would be travelling at about 100-110mph,and an Italian Multi about 10mph more than that. It's the same all the way round the course. Sections that were flattened out, still have the basic contour in the road, and now we're going 50mph faster, the same proportionate lift if taking place.
23-06-2006, 11:22 PM
Find Reply
Don Simons Away
Senior Member
****

Posts: 445
Threads: 28
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 0
#15
 
Does anyone have a comparison of the weight of the current bikes and those bikes of the 50s and 60s? Weight has to be a factor in flying.
Rest in Peace Don Simons 1942 - 2012
24-06-2006, 01:32 AM
Find Reply
Marco Offline
Member
***

Posts: 70
Threads: 16
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation: 0
#16
 
Nick, we all would love to have that book written by you.

About Milky, it seems to me to remember that from the Milky's camera bike it appears clear that he _hit_ the bank on the _left_ (i.e. on the inside of the corner) before to crash on the right.

About the flattening of the TT course jumps (but also the reduction of the adverse camber) you're absolutely right, of course. I think this has two different causes: the ordinary maintenance of the roads for the manx people who must drive every day through them; and the will to conform the TT course to the racing standards. The result, in conjunction with the technical developments of the machines (engine's power, tyres, chassis), is that the TT course is becoming faster and faster. Terribly faster. And it's probable that next year we will see an _antispin_ on the best machines as it seems that 2007 Suzuki and Yamaha models will have it!
24-06-2006, 09:41 AM
Find Reply
Don Simons Away
Senior Member
****

Posts: 445
Threads: 28
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 0
#17
 
I have posted the photos of Les Graham onto the following website.
If anyone deserves a memorial then it is Les Graham, unfortunately the next year we lost him in the Senior TT after he won the 125 TT the day before. RIP Les the quintessential TT racer.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52153418@N00
Rest in Peace Don Simons 1942 - 2012
24-06-2006, 11:21 AM
Find Reply
Marco Offline
Member
***

Posts: 70
Threads: 16
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation: 0
#18
 
Don, they are FANTASTIC shots! Almost touching shots, yes. Thanks.

About picture 4., I remember a shot (published on the Snelling's and Kneale's "The History of the Manx Grand Prix 1923-1998") that potrays "Crasher" White at _Union Mills Bridge_ (according to Bill's caption) in 1934 MGP. It's a place similar to that of picture 4.

About the shots from Clady, they are superbe. They were taken on the legendary 7 mile long straight of Clady, weren't they? That was a straight, perhaps the longest straight in motorcycle history, but with an incredible numbers of high speed bumps! I remember to have read an interesting tale about those jumps in an old autobiography of John Surtees (I think John was one of the few men in the history to have raced on Clady, on the TT corse, on the Le Mans circuit, and on the Madonie (Targa Florio) circuit.

About Graham. Yes, he was an hero. When I went to the isle of Man for the 2003 TT races I had a beautiful speach with an old marshal at the bottom of Bray Hill. He said me that he was just there when Graham was killed ad the start of the second lap of the 1953 Senior TT race. And he gave me his version of the accident. That of Graham was an horrifying accident. The old marshal said me that Graham hit a manhole cover on the road (just that he was indicating me!) while he was overtaking an other TT rider (Brown?). Then he fatally crashed against the walls on Quarter Bridge road, just after the bottom of Bray Hill.
As you know other version of the accident speaks of a mechanical failure of the front suspension of the MV. It's not impossible that those two versions must be logically conjuncted to obtain the truth.
24-06-2006, 12:46 PM
Find Reply
thewitch
Unregistered

 
#19
 
Your visit to Bray Hill is a high point of Harry's TT, Marco.
24-06-2006, 12:49 PM
Reply
Don Simons Away
Senior Member
****

Posts: 445
Threads: 28
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 0
#20
 
Marco, every inch of the TT course is redolent in history.
Every person who visits the Isle of Man to watch or compete in these great races carries away with them so many individual memories.
If only we could distil all these experiences to share with the coming generations, it would be very fulfilling.
I am always saddened when one of the repositories of the history of the TT leaves us, because we cannot replace this knowledge.
Can we only ask that everyone who has such a fund of stories please write them down?
It is an important heritage which would be tragedy if it were to be lost.
Rest in Peace Don Simons 1942 - 2012
24-06-2006, 01:08 PM
Find Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)