A chap on another list has posted this.

He's obviously focused on the train side of things, but has made me realise that there were ambulance trains at TT. Any help out there? All input gratefully received.......................

This evening I have been mostly reading a signalbox register from St. Johns (3 miles from Peel) - apart from the historical railway interest as the register dates from 1963/64 there is a bit of bike content.

On 18th June 1963 there is a series of entries referring to the running of an 'Ambulance Train', presumably an engine, long bogie guards van with bed/Doctor/Nurse in attendance.

(I appreciate that this is a series of *very long* shots.) Firstly - what race was going on at that date? Secondly - is there any reference in more bike related books out there to the running of an Ambulance train on the Isle of Man for the races? I've not got any material in the vast corpus of stuff in the library on Manx railways. It looks to have been based at Kirk Michael on the line to Ramsey. Thirdly - Does anyone have any idea what was the incident? The entries are: 1.15 left Ballacurry, picked up Doctor at Ballacraine, arrived 1.21 at Ballacurry; 2.15 left Ballacurry for Douglas.

There is also an entry in each of 10th and 12th June 1964 with the Ambulance train running, but no record of an incident - apart from it took an hour (as opposed to 10 minutes) to get to Crosby on the 10th. I guess they were loading. :-(

I guess these trains only ran if there was an injured biker needing to get to Douglas Hospital - they didn't run around empty IYSWIM.

Any thoughts?

I don't know why, but I had this vision of two blokes in mucky clothes stoking up a steam-powered helicopter Air Ambulance!

Try the following, some one down there may be able to help.

http://www.iomguide.com/manxtransportationmuseum.php

Cheers

Tel. :wink:

18th June seems very late in the month for a TT race to have been on.
Certainly nowdays the way the date is decided it would be impossible.

In both 1963 and 1964 there were plenty of DNFs..........

Larry? Bill? Ian ?

I think the TT was late that year due to a seaman's strike?? :?

I should think that in the usual practical, pragmatic way they worked, all available resources were pressed into service, and the trains, and in particular the mountain trams, got where closed roads were a problem.
I am sure I have heard of people being taken down from Bungalow this way.
Sadly, in those pre-helicopter days, the only solace for a rider with serious injury was a roving doctor (most Island doctors placed themselves around the course, but there was no communication with them), who, in many recorded instances, could do nothing for his patient. Many died, who now would be rushed to Noble's and be back out later in the week.
With few marshals, it must have been a heart-stopping experience to come across the detritus of a crash, in the road, and see a fellow competitor broken by the side of the course.
Even where there were marshals, they would simply move the body to the grass, cover him up and carry on, with no means to get him away until the racing finished.

This date is after the TT finished. It may refer to an incident during the International cycle race which came in after the TT.
The "Whispering Death's" were often considered a right pain, they did not spend any money in cafes apart from a weak tea, and crossing the road when they were around was hazardous, if you left the pavement without looking you could easily find one parked up your posterior a-la Billy Connoly's famous joke about the bike park!
I was in Nobles during cycle race week one year, there was wholesale whinging from the competitors who slid off. At least we have leathers to protect us, sliding down the road at the Creg in lycra left quite an impression on a few of them.

The 1964 dates are both Race Days - 10th was L/Wt & Junior, while 12th was 50cc/Senior.

However, the helicopter had made its first appearance the year before, and I would think that either an injured rider was so serious as to need the chopper or else he could wait until the roads opened (that is, assuming an ordinary road ambulance couldn't access him).

I think it more likely, especially it being Crosby, that a "civilian" need arose while the roads were closed, and the train, passing as it did under Braddan Bridge, offered the quickest way to Noble's Hospital.

Any further thoughts, Bill?

If someone had the time to browse the Manx papers of the dates mentioned, I feel certain that the answers would be found.
Don't look in my direction for this, I am trying to work out how to fit the Island Photographics TT/MGP collection into our little bungalow. The elastic sides are coming apart at the seams now!

This mention was in Wikipedia

"Empress Vans"
Two vehicles were supplied to the railway in 1897 and became known as the "Empress Vans" to acknowledge the fact that the year of delivery was Queen Victoria's jubilee year. These are the same length as the passenger vehicles but are entirely closed with no windows, but they have guard's lookout duckets attached; numbered F.27 and F.28 they are both extant on the line today but in a deplorable state and only used for storage purposes. Their busy careers have seen them in use as an ambulance train in conjunction with the T.T. and Manx Grand Prix races held annually on the island. They were stored for a number of years outdoors but despite this remain on the railway, having last been used in the early 1990s.