So they should it was a disgrace
Will Loder Offline
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#61
RE: So they should it was a disgrace
Hi Roy,

I agree. I think the Over 500 classics should have been put in with the post classic. Then people with a 750, 500 and 350 could do all 3.

The buying bikes idea did go wrong for BSA because they didn't know about the rule and somebody boought John Cooper's works Rocket 3. Wouldn't it be funny if something similar happened with a Paton or MV!!
I think it's quite a idea becuse it encourages people to spend less or risk loosing a lot of money. And it's an easy way to keep the competition in the realms of the clubman.

I must point out that there is no way I can afford an £18,000 bike which is why I race a 350 greeves.

I should also say that I think the way you and other were treated regarding qualifying this year was ooutrageous.
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21-12-2009, 12:40 AM
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norstar Offline
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#62
RE: So they should it was a disgrace
Hello Will,
I am sure that there are a number of riders that would do all three classes if they could but I would not want to pay the entry fee, two races is enough for me. Another fly in the ointment, why is the entry fee the same for each race entered? At other meeting, if you enter a second event the entry fee is less, because you have already paid insurance? I am in more trouble now!!!
The three race bikes that I have would not make £18,000 together, so I will stick with what I have.
Thanks for your opinion on the qualifying debacle, still very annoyed about it, it needs sorting, for everyone's sake!
Wishing all members and guests on this site a Very Merry Christmas and a Very Happy and Safe New Year.
Roy. (norstar)
24-12-2009, 05:07 PM
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Will Loder Offline
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#63
RE: So they should it was a disgrace
Hi Roy,

I have a few opinions on the qualifying situation.

I think that the rules should be applied equally to everyone, not one rule for one person and one rule for Guy Martin. It doesn't make any difference if he's done 129mph at the TT the rules are the rules.

I think that if more than 5 sessions take place in dry conditions people failing to make qualifying time shouldn't be allowed to race.

If less than 5 sessions are dry but timed sessions are run in the wet, then you should be allowed to race providing that you are within 5% (10% maybe) of the time.

If more than 3 sessions are untimed then riders completing the required amount of laps should be allowed to race.

If more than 4 session are run then riders failing to complete the required amount of laps should not be allowed to race.

I don't know why the second or third event isn't cheaper, it should be.
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(This post was last modified: 24-12-2009, 09:51 PM by Will Loder.)
24-12-2009, 09:49 PM
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Tomcat Offline
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#64
RE: So they should it was a disgrace
Will, steady on with suggestions for improvement mate, you could end up agreeing with me!

Without departing too far from my hobby horse a 'classic course licence' would achieve much the same as my own preference, not admitting current TT riders, but as pointed out this would be a problem for riders in places like Ireland and the IoM itself where there aren't enough classic meets. Also, I remember the late great John Goodall circulating on his G50 at the back of a modern club F400 race just to get a signature for the stupid course licence!

The idea of a 'buy the winner' rule could stop some of the more blatant megabucks replica rocketships but once they get a bit old and ratty they may be just as fast but about to blow.... buying them could do the owner a favour! Again pushing my mind back into the mists of time didn't BSA pay some fine to the organisers so they didn't have to sell their works bikes? The rule was dropped shortly after that I believe. Anyhoo I feel that would be a tough one to get through and I'd rather see a more 'appropriate' level of rider in this clubman event.

On qualifying I fully agree some common sense needs to be brought into the equation. As with Guy Martin (who I dont begrudge his qualifying) if conditions are so bad that people can't get a quick lap/enough laps logged in the week some allowance should be taken of their past record. I can think of a number of occasions Jackie Wood did so, with impeccable judgement, shame such judgement has been lacking since.

My tactic has always been to get a quick lap in asap so in the event of bad weather or breakdowns you don't have to worry so much about speed and can just get the required number of laps in as time allows. Strangely enough this never used to be a problem when we had morning practice and the long Thursday session.

Lastly before I bore everyone to death if the earlier troll actually was Farkie and not just some nameless idiot, it's disappointing if a top sportsman can't understand why us lesser mortals would like to strive towards an award that isnt a win. Oh to be so perfect myself.
05-01-2010, 09:38 PM
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Carolynn Offline
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#65
RE: So they should it was a disgrace
Norstar (& Will)... The entry fee is the same for every race, because of the high costs of insurance. For the TT Course, the entry fee only covers HALF the ACTUAL cost of insuring each rider for each race... The rest is subsidised by the MMCC & the Manx Government.
For your average short circuit, the insurance covers you for a days racing, the small fee for each additional race is for administration etc. This is entirely different to the TT Course, where you are on the circuit for (if all goes well!) 8 days plus.
It is also a hell of a lot more expensive to insure riders on the TT Course than it is on a short circuit.

P.s... I agree with your proposed qualifying rules Will.
09-01-2010, 09:32 PM
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norstar Offline
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#66
RE: So they should it was a disgrace
Hello Carolynn, thank you for your reply, very helpful, it was just a thought when thinking about more than one entry.
I think that there should be a rethink on the practice and qualifying, you cannot have one rule for one (or a few) and another rule for the rest!
As Tomcat said, with the loss of the morning and long Thursday afternoon, the actual time available is even more important but with the weather, accidents and various other reasons for the practice to be delayed or cancelled, it makes qualifying more difficult, with less time on the track than before.
There is never an easy answer but there must be a better way, or commonsense, to benefit all competitors.
10-01-2010, 05:22 PM
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Will Loder Offline
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#67
RE: So they should it was a disgrace
Hi Carolynn,

I'm Glad you agree with my qualifyign rules :-)

I'm guessing that each riders insurance isn't based on a specific mileage or a specific amount of time as this would be impossible to work out. Most likely it is based on a number of days competing.

Surely if you enter 2 races on the same day you dont need 2 sets of insurance? Also you don't need 2 sets of insurance to practice. So if you entered the post classic and junior classic surely you only need one set of insurance for both classes(????) Therefore you should only be required to pay an admin fee.

Also at a short circuit, 2 entries get you twice the ammount of miles. Whilst 2 entries at the manx (in classic classes) get you twice the race miles but not twice the practice miles. Therefore a second entry should be cheaper regardless of the insurance situation.
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(This post was last modified: 10-01-2010, 11:54 PM by Will Loder.)
10-01-2010, 11:48 PM
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an old man returns Offline
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#68
RE: So they should it was a disgrace
http://www.manxgrandprix.org/News/news50.html

Fantastic news on replica's for 1st 2nd and 3rd

Going again now
I was there many times a few years ago, returned in 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012. SUPPORT THE MGP
13-01-2010, 04:57 PM
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