Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
Malcolm Offline
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#1
Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
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A total of £121,878 has been spent so far on government plans to create an Isle of Man TT world series.

Economic Development Minister John Shimmin MHK was questioned on the initiative in the House of Keys this week.

Douglas North MHK John Houghton asked the Minister ‘just how enthusiastic he is’ towards the project.

Mr Shimmin told members that while over a year ago he was ‘very sceptical’ about the idea of exporting the globally recognised TT brand in case it was jeopardised, he now had cause to be ‘cautiously optimistic’.

‘It’s that very fact that makes it attractive to other destinations,’ he said.

Mr Shimmin said that it was too early to say exactly what format the TT world series would take, adding that it would see a series of road races on circuits around the world.

These would culminate in final round on the Isle of Man TT’s iconic Mountain Course.

The £121,878 has been spent on fees and expenses for The Sports Consultancy.

Outlining the work that has so far been carried out, the Minister said: The progress made to date is the completion of an initial feasibility study, which concluded that such a series would be feasible as a commercial sporting concept.

‘The Sports Consultancy has begun work on developing the series concept including some commercial modelling of the event and some initial exploration of possible venues around the world.

‘Some work has also been undertaken to consider how the series could be effectively exploited by a commercial promoter.’


In February the DED was given approval by the Council of Ministers to progress the project up to the point of securing a potential commercial promoter to develop and implement the series.

Mr Shimmin said: ‘My department is now engaged in final contract negotiations with TSC and it is anticipated that a contract will be signed shortly.

‘Council will be given the opportunity of reviewing progress and making a decision as to whether or not to continue the project at key points before a promoter is appointed. The current timescale for the implementation of the series, should Council approve it, is 2017.’


The Minister said: ‘I recognise this is a complex and sensitive project, but one that offers the possibility of increasing the economic and fiscal benefits of the TT.

‘As a result, I think we have a duty to explore the idea.




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by Jackie Turley
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09-05-2014, 10:47 AM
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larryd Offline
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#2
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
A load of nonsense and an absolute waste of money.

I thought that this "idea" had long since died, and that commonsense (!!!) had set in.

Evidently not.

What self-interested idiot sold them this bill of goods?

Further thought - who were these "consultants" who relieved them of the money just to tell them what they wanted to hear (as Consultants do)?

I fear that Minister Shimmin, and others, are far too easily led by the nose.
09-05-2014, 11:46 AM
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cpt_pants Offline
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#3
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
Update on the local news

Here
03-12-2014, 04:39 PM
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wsn03 Offline
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#4
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
Putting aside the sceptics argument for one minute, if as I understand it this went ahead, then this would be run over a winter period.....which would mean we'd finally have something to pass the time with in the 'off' season - that would surely be a good thing?!?!
03-12-2014, 05:09 PM
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Amsterdam Offline
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#5
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
That would indeed take some people over a cold winter period in a nice way... provided they have the funds and days off to go whereever the world wide party is enveloping.

Feasibility concepts is marketing bla bla and fiscal benefits make ones pants drop... There's one thing to it, it takes the bravest and most daredevils of riders who -having read on this forum- often experience trouble enough to raise funds to ride and qualify on IOM, least of all world wide. So the marketing concept would include opening cans of other, local riders willing to take the risk ?? future will tell...
03-12-2014, 05:34 PM
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sticky Offline
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#6
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
(03-12-2014, 05:09 PM)wsn03 Wrote: Putting aside the sceptics argument for one minute, if as I understand it this went ahead, then this would be run over a winter period.....which would mean we'd finally have something to pass the time with in the 'off' season - that would surely be a good thing?!?!

This certainly would have to be a winter series if the TT is to be the final event and therefore it will have to be fundamentally southern hemisphere based.

I'll admit to being a sceptic.  This isn't because I don't want there to be one but because I'm not sure how it could generate enough income to be viable.  We already know how much they've paid this consultancy and also that there will be at least another year before anything definite is known.  So, probably something like £300k spent.  I have a nasty feeling that the only people that will ultimately benefit will be the consultants.

I know you're for it Will, so how do you think it could be a success?
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2014, 06:12 PM by sticky.)
03-12-2014, 06:12 PM
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badlyoverdrawnboy Offline
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#7
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
I've always been confused about what they think they have to sell anybody.  The IOM TT is a unique event, a timed reliability trial on public roads on a very pretty island held for a fortnight and having over 100 years of history; nowhere else does. Its quite different even to its nearby cousins -ulster/nw200 which are proper races with massed starts. Its very unlikely that they or anyone else would pay money to brand them as 'TT world series' events. 

There are already/have already been a number of races called TT (Assen for instance) so its very unlikely that the IOM have much right to licence races that name particularly in those places. Theres probably only 5-6 teams at the TT who would have any sort of chance of doing any sort of championship around the world and there certainly are no other present road circuits which would ever be granted licences to have any form of world championship round. Many countries like England don't allow road closures for racing and to be fair if you tried to do a respectable risk assessment for a fresh road course it would be nearly impossible and also  probably uninsurable in many proper countries.

 That would leave the choice of round-y-round circuits and the problems there are that 1. not many of the top road racers would stand a chance against WSB chaps/local wildcards, 2 It would look very similar to a WSB championship and the FIM etc ain't going to have that. 3 you'd end up the same as when the TT lost its championship status and you'd find that it would be won by semi retired Rossi/Marquez or whoever, who would  manage to avoid (by whatever means) the IOM round. 

Only a really warped marketing/PR/Branding man (like the ones that did the BA tailfins, painted BT vans invisible grey, took a wave out of the ICI logo for £17m) could even keep a straight face whilst taking the money from these fools - rather than being an opportunity to make money they would have to put a huge amount into the series to pump prime it and convince anyone to get involved. If I was going to put millions into a new road race I'm not sure that I'd bother giving DED some more cash to include an irrelevant name in my race title when its a completely different type of event = I'd just call it the Macau TT or whatever- noting they could do about it. This iidea would be like branding the Skipton cattle market monthly sale as a round of the Pamplona Bull running!

 If this had any legs Bernie would have already relieved them of the rights and you'd already be planning for some allnighters!

Lets say I'm luke warm! but then  I'm not a manx taxpayer (if there is such a thing)
03-12-2014, 06:17 PM
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c iom tt Offline
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#8
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
(03-12-2014, 05:09 PM)wsn03 Wrote: Putting aside the sceptics argument for one minute, if as I understand it this went ahead, then this would be run over a winter period.....which would mean we'd finally have something to pass the time with in the 'off' season - that would surely be a good thing?!?!
Will you are flogging a dead horse continuing to support the DED's motorsport division. They only want to hear what they want to hear, which is why we are now all on this forum and not the old one.
They will NEVER back pedal or admit they they are/were wrong on ANY subject that they have embalked on.
 If you can show me otherwise, then I will stand corrected.

I am not saying everything that they have done is wrong, they have actually aranged some excellent things, but a lot of what they do isnt, and this is just another one.
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If you want something bad enough, you'll find a way. If you don't, you'll find an excuse
03-12-2014, 06:25 PM
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Amsterdam Offline
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#9
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
Another thought... discussed this with other Dutch biker, who said, "if it is going to happen at all, it won't last long. People will get killed and the races banned subsequently." Made me think, IOM have this long standing tradition and dealt with casualties and losses. It being in Manx people's blood -don't they all have or know someone who rides, or mashalls- have accepted this and live with the risks. Like BO Boy says, the tradition is only there, on the Isle of Man. Assen long since has been converted with life saving pebble corners etc. (although it still is the only place in the world apart from IOM to call its race a TT.) Elsewhere in the world people might not be looking for this kind of racing...
03-12-2014, 07:56 PM
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Steady the Edward Offline
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#10
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
I just for the life of me can't understand some of the thinking behind the decisions that come out of the Manx government , they plead hard up saying that the Money payed by Subaru is vital to the ability to run the TT and in the next breath have handed a large portion of that money to some one come up with a plan to allow them to sell off the running of it to some as yet un named entity to have the rights to the TT

What's that saying. ( flogging off the family silver )

But then the track record of wonderfully ideas by MH K 's is nowt fresh any one want some film studios
03-12-2014, 07:59 PM
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BenjiesDad Offline
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#11
Smile  RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
Playing catch up here,,

Great idea in principle,
Macau being a round,
The old Brisbane Circuit,
And the cemetery track in New Zealand, cant spell Wanngo nohee,,, Lol
Throw in the old Shah Alman circuit maybe whilst you are out that way,
Up into Central Europe,
Spa, Salzburg ( Circuits that you need the mentality of a road racer )
Northwest 200,

There you go all sorted,
And it didnt cost ! The £121,878 has been spent on fees and expenses for The Sports Consultancy.

Or does it sound like the the good old days of the F1 championship ?
Great racing, on different circuits, but the road racers came on on top most of the times,,
Yet you will get newbies coming to the TT to pick up points,,
Does this sound like old ideas revisted ??

Just my thoughts Blush
03-12-2014, 09:35 PM
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spannerman Offline
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#12
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
From 1949 to 1976 the Isle of Man TT was part of the Motorcycle Grand Prix World Championship and was the home of the British Grand Prix. The event came under increasing scrutiny due to safety concerns despite efforts by the ACU to retain its world championship status. When Italian rider Gilberto Parlotti was killed during the 1972 TT, his close friend and the reigning world champion Giacomo Agostini, announced that he would never again race on the Isle of Man. More riders joined Agostini's boycott and by the 1976 season, only a handful of serious Grand Prix riders were among the entrants. Shortly after the 1976 TT, the FIM made the long-anticipated announcement that the TT, once the most prestigious race on the Grand Prix calendar, was stripped of its world championship status. The Grand Prix action was moved to the UK with the 1977 British Grand Prix being held at Silverstone.

The race authorities of the Isle of Man TT worked with Auto Cycle Union to set up a new formula that would include racing on the Isle of Man. This series was the result of that collaboration.[sup][1][/sup]
For the first five years all three formula were run as part of the Isle of Man TT:
  • 1977 One event: Tourist Trophy, Isle of Man
  • 1978 One event: Tourist Trophy, Isle of Man
  • 1979 One event: Tourist Trophy, Isle of Man
  • 1980 One event: Tourist Trophy, Isle of Man
  • 1981 One event: Tourist Trophy, Isle of Man
For the start of the 1982 season Formula III was dropped and the number of circuits was increased:
  • 1982 Three events: Tourist Trophy, Isle of Man, Vila Real, Portugal; Ulster Grand Prix, Dundrod (Northern Ireland)[sup][2][/sup]
  • 1983 Four events: Tourist Trophy, Isle of Man; TTF1, Dutch TT - Assen (Netherlands); Ulster Grand Prix, Dundrod (Northern Ireland); and TTF2, Assen (second meeting at the circuit)[sup][3][/sup]
  • 1984 Six events: TTF1-TTF2, Tourist Trophy, Isle of Man; TTF1, Dutch TT - Assen (Netherlands), TTF1-TTF2, Vila Real (Portugal); TTF1-TTF2, Ulster GP, Dundrod (Northern Ireland); TTF2, Brno (Czechoslovakia);TTF1, Zolder (Belgium),[sup][4][/sup]
  • 1985 Six events: TTF1-TTF2, Tourist Trophy, Isle of Man; TTF1, Dutch TT - Assen (Netherlands); TTF1-TTF2, Vila Real (Portugal); TTF1-TTF2, Montjuich (Spain); TTF1-TTF2, Ulster GP, Dundrod (Northern Ireland); TTF1, Hockenheim (Germany)[sup][5][/sup]
  • 1986, Eight events: TTF1, San Marino motorcycle Grand Prix, Misano (Italy); TTF1, Hockenheim (Germany); TTF1-TTF2, Tourist Trophy, Isle of Man; TTF1, Dutch TT - Assen (Netherlands); TTF1-TTF2, Jerez (Spain); TTF1, Vila Real (Portugal); (TTF1) Imatra (Finland); and TTF1-TTF2, Ulster GP, Dundrod (Northern Ireland)[sup][6][/sup]
For the remaining four seasons only Formula I races were run:
  • 1987 Seven events: Misano (Italy); Hungaroring (Hungary); Tourist Trophy; Isle of Man, Dutch TT - Assen (Netherlands); Sugo (Japan); Hockenheim (Germany); and Donington Park (England).[sup][7][/sup]
  • 1988, Eight events: Sugo (Japan); Tourist Trophy, Isle of Man; Dutch TT - Assen (Netherlands); Vila Real (Portugal); Kouvola (Finland); Dundrod (Northern Ireland); Pergusa (Italy); and Donington Park (England)[sup][8][/sup]
  • 1989, six events: Sugo (Japan); Tourist Trophy, Isle of Man; Dutch TT - Assen (Netherlands); Vila Real (Portugal); Kouvola (Finland); and Dundrod (Northern Ireland).[sup][9][/sup]
  • 1990, five events: Sugo (Japan); Tourist Trophy, Isle of Man; Vila Real (Portugal); Kouvola (Finland); and Dundrod (Northern Ireland).[sup][10[/sup]
03-12-2014, 10:26 PM
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wsn03 Offline
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#13
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
Sticky and CIOMTT; I've not stated I'm in favour, think it will work, or know how that will happen - I simply said if it does happen we would have racing in the "off" season which would be a good thing.
I know nothing about how it could be made a success. Personally I hope if it does happen that it is a success, pretty much like the TT has been to date. Hopefully the Consultants employed know their stuff well enough to make the right recommendations to make that happen.

As for the forum, I would have closed it down long ago, not because I don't like it, clearly as one of its highest posters I loved being on it, but commercially it was a liability in my opinion. You can argue that one til the cows come home, I'm just saying I wouldn't have kept it open not defending why they closed it, you'll need to speak to the DED for that one.
04-12-2014, 10:51 AM
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#14
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
Strikes me that it will be only the big money teams that will be able to afford this world series if it materialises, a lot of the riders that compete at the TT find it hard enough to put the money together to get to the TT, so how are they going to afford going to a world series?
 
04-12-2014, 02:02 PM
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spannerman Offline
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#15
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
(04-12-2014, 02:02 PM)BRADDAN OAK Wrote: Strikes me that it will be only the big money teams that will be able to afford this world series if it materialises,  a lot of the riders that compete at the TT find it hard enough to put the money together to get to the TT, so how are they going to afford going to a world series?

And only a selected few riders get invited to Macau, so in fairness that's a no go meeting.
04-12-2014, 03:17 PM
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#16
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
Macau doesn't need anything from the TT.  It's survived plenty long enough without it and the Formula 3 and WTCC races are more important to them than the bikes anyway.

I can't imagine the NW200 being part of this either (or the UGP) as the whole point is to get someone to pay the IOM and the DED will be looking for a venue that can bring commercial benefit to the Island.

I once pitched a question to John Shimmin on Stu Peters' show about TTxGP/TT Zero and whether the money spent was bringing any tangible return.

His answer was along the lines that it brought "reputational value" to the IOM, which I guess meant 'nothing'.  So, does the Island have the poltical talent to exploit this series?  I guess we'll need a Manx resident's opinion on that one.

On another matter, I'm of the opinion that one of the reasons the TT is strong at the moment is that there is no compunction for anyone to race there.  If it becomes part of a World series are we at risk of seeing another 'Gilberto Parlotti' scenario?

Bernie Ecclestone keeps popping up in the conversation.  I can't see it.  When you think of the kind of revenues he's dealing with in F1 a TT World Series would hardly pay for his evening dinner.  What I DO think is that people see what he's done and try to follow his business model - invariably with little or no success.  What the imitators generally don't have is the depth of knowledge he has.  I'm no fan of his but he's done it all in motor sport.  He's raced, managed drivers, ran the Brabham F1 team and of course, brokered the TV rights in the 1970s.

This is where I think this TT idea can't work - the world of motor sport is full of people (2 & 4 wheels) trying to emulate Bernie in trying to get people to pay them as rights holders and it's an increasingly crowded market.  You have to wonder how strong a brand the TT is in comparison to what others are trying to pitch. 
04-12-2014, 03:54 PM
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#17
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
I can remember some time ago they tried to get a real road race in Anglesey, but it fell at the last hurdle with the council. It would be great having racing in our off season but can't really see it taking off, the riders and teams are run ragged now without the addition of running to the far corners of the world.
04-12-2014, 04:21 PM
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#18
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
I hope/wish I'm wrong, but I can't see this being practical or financially viable in many locations other than the IOM.  If it did come to pass it could have events run in the USA the prior summer/fall and then the "championship" on the IOM in the flowing spring.  With the potential market here I can't see the financial sense of just ignoring this market.  However, the packed in cotton wool "health and safety/litigious" environment here would make getting insurance cost prohibitive.  Although the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb has been going on since 1916 and over the years people have met their demise running that race too.  If TT style "road" racing was to take place here the only way I could see it happening would be at tracks like Laguna Seca, Road Atlanta or Watkins Glen.  Not really "road" racing for sure, but anything even remotely approaching the risks involved with real road racing would probably be unpalatable to too many folks over here.  I also can't see many racers being able to afford competing at venues all over the world.  Maybe.......winning at a minimum number of local races makes them eligible to try and qualify for the TT or something.  I just doesn't make sense to me that it's actually doable, it's just too unique an event and mindset to be reproducible anywhere else on a financially viable scale.  Just my opinion.
04-12-2014, 06:14 PM
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#19
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
If it gets off the ground there will probably be a core of riders e.g. the top 25 TT riders signed up and they will tour a bit like MotoGP and WSBK, being paid for their participation and receiving travel allowances etc.
The remaining places will be locals and wild cards I imagine.
04-12-2014, 06:28 PM
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#20
RE: Isle of Man TT world series plan remains viable, says minister
When this idea was originally proposed that's exactly the scenario that was described.  A core of approx. 20 'seeded' riders with the grid bolstered by local wild cards.  There was no mention of a tracks being similar length to the TT course.  It's more likely they'd be S100 sized.

Question is of course, how will it be worthwhile for the host country/region?  They'll be expected to pay the DED a wedge of money and they won't be doing that unless there's something in it for them.
04-12-2014, 06:37 PM
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