sticky Wrote:In fairness, the Junior and Senior still have fairly healthy entries, so I'm not sure anything needs to change there. The other classes I'm quite sure are being affected by the TT course licence, which is a farce and it's high time the MMCC grew a pair and stood up to the ACU over it.

Please shoot me down in flames, but could not the MMCC tell the ACU where to get off and run under the auspices of the MCUI or even set up their own licensing body.

I realise this has lots of ramifications with the FIM, but those friends of mine who engage in 'dirty' activities inform me that there is a seperate body in the UK, the AMCA, who organise off road events with no ACU involvement at all.

cargo Wrote:There are problems to consider if we are to think about allowing 1000cc superstock type bikes into the Senior Manx GP.

First off the safety lobby will have something to say even if the bikes are not full on Superbikes the headline will be 1000cc superbikes.............note the small s.

And then there is for me the more serious problem of policing it.
Superstock rules are very complex and a lot of time and money would have to be spent checking bikes to make sure they complied with what ever version of Superstock rules are to be applied. It is frankly a logistical nightmare....................

I'm not saying it can't be done but what I am saying is that I'm not prepared to pay for all this checking and measuring of engines the current rules are easy to enforce..........Superstock rules are most definatly NOT

formula rules that sorts that out cargo (open rules)

as for the headlines i dont buy it ..........plenty of riders new to the course at the t.t on 1000,s with the same licence as me national and course licence with a lot less experience than a lot of us.

know then the course licence well its here SO get on with it stop moaning about it and learn to live with it........yer well maybe a 8 lap mallory or darley moor or where ever does not maybe help you around the t.t course BUT saying that at least everybody should be sharp because at least they have been racing. I personally just see it as some thing i have to accomplish to be good enough to compete on the worlds finest road race course. nothing more

since the intrduction of the course licence have you noticed that all the races have become a lot more competive. middfield at the manx these days is not hanging about replica times have risen a hell of alot. maybe just maybe its because of the course licence that the standard of riding has risen and there does seem to be less incidents which none of us want. and at the end of the day its not so much the acu but the insurance companys demanding it.

thats all i,ve got to say about that subject and is my personal veiw and i dont need quoteing on the subject.

yours andy.

andy kirk Wrote:

cargo Wrote:There are problems to consider if we are to think about allowing 1000cc superstock type bikes into the Senior Manx GP.

First off the safety lobby will have something to say even if the bikes are not full on Superbikes the headline will be 1000cc superbikes.............note the small s.

And then there is for me the more serious problem of policing it.
Superstock rules are very complex and a lot of time and money would have to be spent checking bikes to make sure they complied with what ever version of Superstock rules are to be applied. It is frankly a logistical nightmare....................

I'm not saying it can't be done but what I am saying is that I'm not prepared to pay for all this checking and measuring of engines the current rules are easy to enforce..........Superstock rules are most definatly NOT

formula rules that sorts that out cargo (open rules)

as for the headlines i dont buy it ..........plenty of riders new to the course at the t.t on 1000,s with the same licence as me national and course licence with a lot less experience than a lot of us.

know then the course licence well its here SO get on with it stop moaning about it and learn to live with it........yer well maybe a 8 lap mallory or darley moor or where ever does not maybe help you around the t.t course BUT saying that at least everybody should be sharp because at least they have been racing. I personally just see it as some thing i have to accomplish to be good enough to compete on the worlds finest road race course. nothing more

since the intrduction of the course licence have you noticed that all the races have become a lot more competive. middfield at the manx these days is not hanging about replica times have risen a hell of alot. maybe just maybe its because of the course licence that the standard of riding has risen and there does seem to be less incidents which none of us want. and at the end of the day its not so much the acu but the insurance companys demanding it.

thats all i,ve got to say about that subject and is my personal veiw and i dont need quoteing on the subject.

yours andy.

Its alright saying get with it re course licence, but that is a fact of life that this has had an effect on the number of entries, especially the classics as you can't just run them for the fun of it. Parts are not that easily got hold of.

Formula rules ???

Forgive my ignorance never heard of it.............explain it to me please

Why limit 1000 bikes to superstock regs? The Junior is basically a 600 open so let the senior be a 1000 open. This removes the problem of policing it. I can see the argument of full on superbikes turning up but look at the TT lap times between the superbike and superstock and even short circuits are relatively close. A superbike is hard to ride and set up and you would still be on treaded tyres anyway.
You say the Junior/Senior isn't short of entries? I have to admit to not knowing the number of entries received by the club. Are we saying that only the newcomers is suffering a shortfall? Well as most n/c are on the modern jap stuff anyway then up the capacity limit and keep the race as well. Class A could be 1000 fours and 1200 twins Class B 750/600/250 smokers and Class C 125/400/650. The main classes for each would be boosted by a bigger newcomer race anyway.
I may sound like I have a 1000 bike in the shed waiting but this isn't the case. I just want the event to grow and prosper.
The more I think about this I'm afraid its probably just down to money. Tweaking the classes may help but long term it'll be peoples finances that determine who comes over. The entries are already subsidised and the IOMSP are going to justify their wedge somehow. The ACU won't drop a licence that fills the coffers (why can't the helicopter fund have the cash?) and every club has benefited in some way by extra entries from riders who need another finish.
I think we need race sponsors. Not for prize money but for start money for all.

cargo Wrote:Formula rules ???

Forgive my ignorance never heard of it.............explain it to me please

cargo acu handbook page 273 section 16

most club races in the u.k are held under these rules as its easy to police.

shipleymanx .where theres a will theres away....any thing worth doing is never easy.

I'll go have a look at the ACU handbook..........thanks

I'm almost certain that all of the money raised by the dreaded course licence goes to the TTMA................sure I read that somewhere

What I do know is that the ACU don't keep it .............they are NOT filling the coffers

OK Cargo. Fair enough.
I don't believe the licence is in any way responsible for higher standards of riding though.

this is whats going on this weekend with derby phoenix at cadwell the grids have been massively supported all year surely a lot of these lads are potential manx competiors for the future the mmcc has just got to target the market and the market is f600 f750/1300 thats what the majority are riding surley its got to be worth a look

formula 600 grid
1 84 Ian Fleetwood Barnsley Yamaha R6 600
2 71 Ross Richards Chesterfield Yamaha R6 600
3 88 Garry Beardsley Chesterfield Yamaha R6 600
4 33 Tom Meehan Shewsbury Yamaha R6 600
5 69 John Barrass Rotherham Yamaha R6 600
6 55 Dominic Usher Brandesburton Yamaha R6 600
7 72 Dean Hair Honley Honda CBR 600 N
8 40 Dean Hindson Doncaster Yamaha R6 600
9 19 James Henry Shepshed Yamaha R6 600 N
10 60 Nick Green Longstanton Honda CBR 600
11 64 Danny Firth Doncaster Yamaha R6 600 N
12 38 Pete Sims Hornsea Yamaha R6 600 N
13 12 Nick Humphrey Worksop Honda CBR 600 RR
14 2 Anthony Park Shifnal Suzuki GSXR 600 N
15 7 Gary Wilson Rotherham Suzuki GSXR 600 N
16 6 Shaun Evans Meden Vale Honda CBR 600RR N
17 79 Carl Annable Coalville Honda CBR 600 RR N
18 30 Daniel Taylor Gainsborough Honda CBR 600 N
19 351 Ricky Elder Swindon Kawasaki ZX6 600 RR N
20 9 Paul Charman Accrington Suzuki GSXR 600
21 165 John Simpson Antrim Triumph Daytona 675
22 11 David Jukes Douglas Yamaha R6 600
23 63 Nathan Barrett Keighley Honda CBR 600 RR N
24 48 Wayne Humble Alston Yamaha R6 600 N
25 42 Richard Charlton Tow Law Yamaha R6 600 N
26 51 Alan Tanton Hull Yamaha R6 600
27 171 Simon Bland Grimsby Suzuki GSXR 600 N
28 32 Nikki Birkett Caistor Suzuki GSXR 600 N
29 28 David Young Tupton Honda CBR 600 RR
30 52 James Kelly Weston Park Yamaha R6 600 N
31 41 Andy Kirk Lincoln Suzuki GSXR 600
32 117 Matt Smith Newhall Yamaha R6 600


formula 400 grid
1 4 Alan Armour Humberston Suzuki RGV 250
2 45 Thomas Fisher Lambley Honda VFR 400
3 86 Chris Smith Fillongley Kawasaki ZXR 400
4 172 Tim Bradley Shipstone on Stour Yamaha FZR 400
5 66 Freddy Pett Kings Lynn Aprilia RS 250 N
6 37 Paul Ellerker Easing Wold Kawasaki ZXR 400
7 53 Chris Waters Louth Kawasaki ZXR 400
8 13 Rick Owen Lincoln Kawaski ZXR 400
9 18 Philip Harrison Sheffield Yamaha FZR 400
10 46 Iain McDonald Clackmannanshire Aprilia RS 250
11 48 Richie Welsh Hull Yamaha FZR 400
12 33 Dave Williams Warrington Honda CBR 400
13 77 James Martin Shifnal Kawasaki ZXR 400 N
14 50 David Reynolds Dudley Suzuki RGV250
15 24 Terence Martin Lincoln Kawasaki ZXR 400 N
16 9 Matthew Graves Dunston Suzuki RGV 250
17 127 Richard Saunders Dudley Kawasaki ZXR 400
18 2 Charlie Burke Shelton Lock Honda VFR 400
19 25 Edward Barnes Rainow Kawasaki KR1S 250 N
20 12 John Stacey Codnor Honda NSR 250
21 20 Peter Carney Huntington Kawasaki ZXR 400 N
22 11 John Bolsover Chesterfield Honda RVF 400 N
23 91 Sam Hanby Sheffield Aprilia RS 125
24 31 Mark Nerlich Hull Kawasaki ZXR 400
25 6 Jonathan Todd Dronfield Yamaha FZR 400 N
26 16 Brian Inglis Spalding Kawasaki ZXR 400
27 75 Jerry Frost Duston Kawasaki ZXR 400
28 17 Graham Morss Lincoln Kawasaki ZXR 400 N
29 15 Rich Richardson Hull Kawasaki ZXR 400
30 19 David Andrew Nottingham Aprilia RS 250 N
31 21 Stuart Frith Sheffield Yamaha FZR 400
32 10 Jack Marchant North Kelsey Honda RS 125 N
33 5 Tim Gorman Derby Honda RS 125 N
34 14 Mark Evans Shrewsbury Honda CBR 400 N
35 Mark Jordan


f751/1300 grid
1 1 Daz Bellworthy Mackworth Suzuki GSXR 1000
2 6 Geoff Lapworth Lancaster Suzuki GSXR 1000
3 100 Kerrigan Read Bury St Edmunds Suzuki GSXR 1000
4 93 Liam Marchant North Kelsey Yamaha R1 1000
5 30 Mike Horberry Hull Yamaha R1 1000
6 181 Martin Appleyard Leeds Suzuki GSXR 1000
7 13 Paul Bumford St Helens Yamaha R1 1000
8 28 Gary Bumford Standish Suzuki GSXR 1000
9 166 Christian Slater Spalding Suzuki GSXR 1000
10 3 Phil Crowe Market Rasen Suzuki GSXR 1000
11 42 Darren Miranda Rotherham Kawasaki ZX10R 1000 N
12 63 Mick Daly Birmingham Honda CBR 1000 RR
13 10 Ash Daughtrey Rotherham Suzuki GSXR 1000 N
14 9 Brett Daughtrey Rotherham Suzuki GSXR 1000 N
15 48 James Ward Long Eaton Yamaha R1 1000 N
16 61 Steve Whitfield Mannington Suzuki GSXR 1000
17 80 Lee Wilson Barnsley Suzuki GSXR 1000
18 77 Rob Shepherdson Hull Suzuki GSXR 1000
19 83 Steve Sarson Shepshed Suzuki GSXR 1000
20 57 Gavin Bramwell Stafford Suzuki GSXR 1000
21 2 Roland Middleton Bury St Edmunds Yamaha R1 1000 N
22 97 Richard Fisher Hartlepool Suzuki GSXR 1000
23 25 Damian McGrath Beeston Honda CBR 1000RR N
24 38 Steven Bentley Accrington Suzuki GSXR 1000
25 190 Patrick Bell Haltwhistle Suzuki GSXR 1000 N
26 147 Mark Routledge Haltwhistle Suzuki GSXR 1000 N
27 37 Mark Thompson Northampton Yamaha R1 1000 N
28 87 Billy Mellor Barnsley Honda CBR 1000RR
29 12 Christopher Scott Congleton Yamaha R1 1000
30 91 Dave Strawberry Norton Derby Suzuki GSXR 1000 N
31 15 Adam Sheriff Barnsley Yamaha R1 1000 N
32 34 Matt Bishop Aston Clinton Suzuki GSXR 1000
33 252 Andrew Black Dumfries Honda CBR 1000RR
34 555 Steven Black Dumfries Honda CBR 1000
35 144 George Wellings Doncaster Suzuki GSXR 1000 N
36 18 Graham Taylor Doncaster Honda CBR 918 N
37 11 Mike Chappell Grantham Suzuki GSXR 1000
38 29 Jeff Bywater Croyden Yamaha R1 1000 N
R1 19 Martin Hutchinson Halifax Yamaha R1 1000

Pre injection/steel frame 600 grid
1 112 Shane Colbrook Grimsby Yamaha R6 600 pi
2 22 Nicholas Hope Hillmorton Yamaha R6 600 pi
3 643 Mark Dicken Barwell Yamaha R6 600 pi
4 8 Paul Fryer Spilsby Yamaha R6 600 pi
5 105 Mark Hodgson Retford Yamaha R6 600 pi
6 27 Neil Gibson Brough Honda CBR 600 sf
7 56 Dave Langley Fife Yamaha R6 600 pi
8 24 Stuart Orme Barkston Yamaha R6 600 pi
9 75 Keith Hauxwell Darlington Honda CBR 600 sf N
10 35 Mark Cockrem Otley Yamaha R6 600 pi
11 170 Sean Hooson Huncote Yamaha R6 600 pi
12 39 James Wolfe Romsey Honda CBR 600 sf N
13 20 Andy Lee Offerton Honda CBR 600 pi
14 49 David Stiff Selby Kawasaki ZX6R pi
15 124 Alan Bartle Beverley Yamaha R6 600 pi N
16 21 Neil Hill Ashby Yamaha R6 600 pi N
17 243 Clive Mindham Kettering Honda CBR 600 sf
18 17 Paul Stanton Rugby Yamaha R6 600 pi N
19 321 Chris Kingham Aldershot Yamaha R6 600 pi
20 31 Chris Parry Bewdley Honda CBR 600 sf
21 4 Brian Sparrow Grove Honda CBR 600 sf N
22 34 Angus McMahon Douglas Honda CBR 600 sf
23 10 Warren Beese Knaresborough Yamaha R6 600 pi
24 175 Phil Murden Derby Honda CBR 600 pi
25 37 Frank James Brentford Honda CBR 600 sf
26 5 Carl Smalley Brigg Yamaha R6 600 pi N
27 87 Will Richardson Doncaster Honda CBR 600 sf N
28 14 Gary Cooper Pudsey Honda CBR 600 pi
29 62 Martin Atkinson York Honda CBR 600 sf
30 3 Gary Harding Cleobury Mortimer Honda CBR 600 sf N
31 77 Mark Bamford Peel Kawasaki ZX6 600 RR pi
32 149 Adam Nix Darlington Honda CBR 600 sf
33 70 Chris Heitman Willington Yamaha R6 600 pi
34 18 Jimmy Dennis Roos Honda CBR 600 N
35 15 Jason Hall Lincoln Yamaha R6 600 pi N
36 36 Luke Tansley Littleover Kawasaki ZX6 600 RR pi N sun only
37 23 Darren Odlin Louth Honda CBR 600 sf N sun only
38
R1

Thunderbikes & Open 400
1 5 John Otter Lincoln Suzuki GSXR 750
2 81 Dave Eckersley Bletchley Yamaha R1 1000 pi
3 47 Charlie Wilson Sunderland Yamaha R1 1000 pi N
4 55 Adrian Hartog Boston Yamaha R1 1000 pi
5 8 John Coughlan East Grinstead Aprilia RSVR 1000
6 90 Jamie Harrison Crewe Suzuki GSXR 750
7 31 Rob Simcock High Peak Suzuki GSXR 750
8 73 Mike Moulai Scunthorpe Ducati 999 N
9 53 Richard Gammon Towcester Aprilia RSV 1000
10 14 Richard Mackay Beverley Aprilia RSVR 1000 N
11 194 Wayne Crossman Upminster MV Agusta F4 750 N
12 65 Simon Rooms Hornsea Suzuki TLR 1000 N
13 21 Allan Carver Hornchurch Suzuki GSXR 750 N
14 20 Richard Carver Hornchurch Ducati 749 N
15 51 Charlie Flett Aberdeen Ducati 999
16 22 Nigel Franklin South Woodford Yamaha R1 1000 pi N
17 76 Michael Dooley Burton Salmon KTM Super Duke 990
18 65 John Simpson Antrim Triumph Daytona 675
19 41 Andrew King Duston Yamaha R1 1000 N
20 72 Stefan Daykin Annesley Woodhouse Yamaha R1 1000pi N
21 71 Paul Jamison Nottingham Yamaha R1 1000 pi N
22 4 Sam Smeeton Sheffield Honda SP2 1000
23
24
25
26
27
28
29 8 Paul Hedison Gainsborough Honda RS 250
30 23 Sam Nicholson Bottesford Honda RS 250
31 30 Edward Rendell Chelmsford Honda RS 125
32 53 Chris Waters Louth Kawasaki ZXR 400
33 3 Martin Thrower Yeovil Honda RS250R
34 26 Lou Goddard Earl Stonham Honda RS 250
35 11 John Bolsover Chesterfield Honda RVF 400 N
36 3 Jez Wilson Spalding Honda RS 250
37 5 Tim Gorman Derby Honda RS 125 N
38 7 Stuart Garton Scunthorpe Yamaha TZ 250 sat only
R1

Sidecars grid
32 Tim Antill Cuckney Windle Suzuki 1000
32 Heath letgo Lane
1 John Longmore Worksop DMR Honda 600
1 Susan Longmore
2 Carl Parkinson Retford LCR Suzuki 1000
2 Phil Hyde
11 Steve Hix Evesham MR Equipe Kawasaki 600
11 Alun Thomas
22 Tim Lobley Newark TLR Suzuki 1000
22 Darren Tritton
26 Robert Atkinson Holme on Spalding Moor Baker Yamaha 600
26 Simon Dawson
3 Barry James Retford LCR Suzuki 1000
3 Ellie Jordan
18 David Blackwood Scunthorpe Shelbourne Suzuki 600
18 Jayne Blackwood
14 Simon Christie Beverley Christie 998
14 Carl Morgan
12 Neil Kelly Peel IOM Honda 600
12 Jason O'Connor
7 Gary Bryan North Kelsey Baker Yamaha 600
7 Robert Bell
13 Marc Fagan Laxley FFRS/MRE Yamaha 600
13 Robert Lunt
4 Vince Balderson Grimsby Baker Yamaha 1000
4 Rick Balderson
46 Mick Bleackley Worksop LCR Yamaha 1000
46 Ritchie Bleackley
5 David Dobbs Newark Derbyshire Suzuki 600
5 Ruth Dobbs
51 Claude Montagnier Roissy en Brie France LCR 600
51 Laurent Seyeux
6 Liam Abbott Riddings Windle Yamaha R1 1000
6 Phillip Atkin
17 Carl Fenwick Ferriby Derbyshire Honda 600
17 Keir Pedley
15 Craig Attkinson York Jacobs Yamaha 600
15 Glenn Dawson
9 Ken Chappell Market Rasen Ireson Yamaha 600
9 Simon Chappell
8 Ian Smith Shepshed Windle Suzuki 600
8 Dean Henry
52 Dave Kimberly Tysoe Ireson Honda 600
52 Baz Stone

Thats quite a sidecar grid............I doubt if theres ever more that 10 here.

I do have to agree that much work needs to be done in "selling" the Manx to potential competitors basicly that means newcomers....

Once you've "got" them they do come back.

I certainly feel that this should be a primary role for the ambassadors and I know that so far as I can I do my best to talk to as many guys and gals as I can about the Manx and how to go about getting an entry..................and of course to sell he idea in the first place. I know of at least 2 from here who hopefully be going next year as a result of talking to me.
Thing is here in Ireland just about anyone who races knows about the Manx but my feeling is that in UK mainland the perception is that the Manx is a Classic event...............the ambassadors there have a much tougher job to do but some of the really big clubs need to organise with the MMCC some kind of event where the club members can all gather and meet ambassadors..............and with a MMCC person..................... just informally and try and get the message across..................

One thing I feel very strongly about and that is that the Manx should not become some kind if TT lite......................I'm all for sponsorship and event promotion but all that commericial nonsense has it's place and it's not at the Manx.............it's a national road race which should be for club racers to enjoy for the sheer thrill of it.............not professional high speed mobile billboards selling fizzy drinks and diggers for hire

One of the biggest problems in boosting the classic grids is the number and timing of race meetings for classic machines. The CRMC are running a 7 event schedule this season. One of the meetings took place the week before the Manx and another one was the week after - you can see where the problem lies in that...

The Wirral 100 club have a well supported classic class but as their meetings tend to be based around the north west & Anglesey, that's a problem if you live in the south east!

All this means that getting enough rides in to qualify to race at the Manx is a major logistical headache, before you factor in the cost aspect. That's why I think the TT Course licence issue needs to be re-addressed and soon.

sticky Wrote:One of the biggest problems in boosting the classic grids is the number and timing of race meetings for classic machines. The CRMC are running a 7 event schedule this season. One of the meetings took place the week before the Manx and another one was the week after - you can see where the problem lies in that...

The Wirral 100 club have a well supported classic class but as their meetings tend to be based around the north west & Anglesey, that's a problem if you live in the south east!

All this means that getting enough rides in to qualify to race at the Manx is a major logistical headache, before you factor in the cost aspect. That's why I think the TT Course licence issue needs to be re-addressed and soon.

very good point sticky i,am no expert on the classic situation but i understand the problems a bit more if you soley ride classic machines. if this helps at all derby phoenix and other clubs run steel frame races and all the classic bikes would qualify under that banner and pretty sure alot of experienced classic riders would be a force to be reckoned with

Hi Gang, Ive been reading this thread with interest over the past few weeks. Going back to the Newcomers Race I think the C Class should be opened up to 250cc Production based Two Strokes like Aprilia RS 250 , Suzuki RGV 250 , Honda NSR 250 and TZR Yamahas as they run them in formula 400 class in the UK along with the 650cc Twins and open 400,s Their are a lot of Two Stroke based production 250,s being raced across the pond a few of these guys might consider doing the MGP if they had a class to run in. As for another class how about a sound of Thunder Class for Unlimited Twins , 675 Triples and Unlimited Singles First 3 home overall get reps and first 3 in each catagory also get reps it would be a very interesting class their are plenty of twins about as their are 675 triples and singles. Their is even talks of BMW and MV Agusta producing 675 triples in the future just a few thoughts the Classic Races should stay as they are Cheers all the best Irish Ago....

andy kirk Wrote:

sticky Wrote:One of the biggest problems in boosting the classic grids is the number and timing of race meetings for classic machines. The CRMC are running a 7 event schedule this season. One of the meetings took place the week before the Manx and another one was the week after - you can see where the problem lies in that...

The Wirral 100 club have a well supported classic class but as their meetings tend to be based around the north west & Anglesey, that's a problem if you live in the south east!

All this means that getting enough rides in to qualify to race at the Manx is a major logistical headache, before you factor in the cost aspect. That's why I think the TT Course licence issue needs to be re-addressed and soon.

very good point sticky i,am no expert on the classic situation but i understand the problems a bit more if you soley ride classic machines. if this helps at all derby phoenix and other clubs run steel frame races and all the classic bikes would qualify under that banner and pretty sure alot of experienced classic riders would be a force to be reckoned with

Andy, my 750 Seeley used to be raced at the Derby Phoenix and it was nowhere near competitive against the 600s 12 years ago with a better rider than me on it! This is a non-starter. I'm sure we've already all heard the one about the Manx classic top running rider who was forced to ride round at the back of club SS400 events to get his signatures. What does anybody learn from that? Nothing.

Really, there's no alternative for classic riders but to do classic events and as stated that has an impact in cost and the price/availability of parts. If you want to attract more classic riders to the Island you need to look at what is stopping them, not tell them "this is a fait accompli, like it or lump it" because right now they are lumping it.

The course licence was an ill-conceived kneejerk reaction to an unrelated set of events in 2005 - one (if that) might have been avoided and if the existing MMCC seeding and qualifying system had been enforced more strictly the rider concerned might not have been out on track anyway.

As has been said there are many motocross meetings that run under alternative governing bodies, AMCA and YMSA for example, because they were fed up with the ACU. Running the Manx under the MCUI or even creating a Manx Federation should remove outside influences.

Lastly it's all very well printing the entry list from a club race but how many of those guys have got national licences? How many have the time, money or inclination to do the Manx? Minitwins and the like are booming as well, would you simply put on a race for them because there are a lot of entries in UK club racing? The event needs spectator interest as well as rider support. Several people have said another "Japanese Four-Cylinder Road Bike" class isn't the way forward (as the TT are realising as well).

One thing about marketing, it's easier to keep customers than win new ones. Perhaps the ACU/MMCC should start to consider that.

any one heard any news on changes to the manx yet ??

I think it was around this time last year that the announcement to allow 650 twins was made. It'll be interesting to see if the club goes down the road of introducing a different race/class to boost entries or a rearranging the programme we have. I don't see a problem with Irishagos suggestion of allowing 250 proddy bikes into the U/L but I can't see that bringing in more than one or two, theres hardly any on short circuits in England now.
You either take the view that;
1.not as many people want to ride here anymore,
2.we don't offer a race for the bike people already have,
3.each race has a knock on effect for the other race on the same day
4.its too expensive
I don't agree that the Manx is in danger of becoming "another TT". The classics see to that and should be encouraged as much as possible. Nor do I agree with Cargos comment that this is a club race with no room for big sponsors. No normal club could ever afford to hire the TT course (its over £120 for one day at Oulton) and if a title sponsor was found that offered free entries and travel subsidies we would all be over the moon.
I was looking through the programme the other day. The Junior is the only race with something like a full grid but I doubt many entries are turned away. The Senior is lacking, probably at the expense of the U/L and L/W on the same day. The U/L and L/W have over 80 entries but again suffers to the Senior on the same day. The JC and LC have almost the same amount of entries as the U/L and L/W and the SC is slightly down on that with over 70. We already know the problem with the NC with around 40 entries.
My thoughts on this is that we can't only look at the NC as the weak one. All are suffering in some way or another and if this continues to slide then soon you have no event at all.

Rich Wrote:Nor do I agree with Cargos comment that this is a club race with no room for big sponsors.

I didn't say that


I think what I wrote was...................


"I'm all for sponsorship and event promotion"

You also said:

"all that commericial nonsense has it's place and it's not at the Manx.............it's a national road race which should be for club racers to enjoy for the sheer thrill of it.............not professional high speed mobile billboards selling fizzy drinks and diggers for hire"

Bear in mind that many bikes are pretty close to that already and no rider will refuse a good offer. I'm not being critical of you, I just don't agree with the point above. Bringing money to the Manx is not nonsense, it might be vital to its survival.

It depends on how you read my point as ever the real meaning gets lost in the written word.

There is no doubt that the Manx needs all the sponsorship it can get................... but not at the cost of losing it's core values.

It's an amatuer event............there is real and genuine sportsmanship (something the TT has lost)

And of course sponsors want to have their products and services advertised but not to the extent that the races are over shadowed with corperate junkets, lunches and men in suits............